Sane? Not very.
Sober? I think so.
I expect we will see a very obvious hiding spot guarded by several deadly traps and monsters.
Given what I saw from Veles so far the needed object is not there (and can be aquired by asking politely).
Well, let me put it this way: Koschei the Deathless was a powerful magic-using villain in Russian folklore, who tended to go around kidnapping other men’s wives. So the answer is properly, “Sane enough to make killing him very, VERY difficult”.
To further illuminate – Koschei is deathless because (among other things) his heart is not in his body. one example of his standard security for his heart is to put it in a sparrowhawk (or a goose), that’s in a hare, that’s in a fox (though the order of which animal is stuffed alive into which other animal varies), that’s in a Treasure chest (Koschei has the key, usually), that’s embedded in a tree, that’s guarded by a dragon. And no, you have to deal with each animal in turn, no stabbing all three at once. This is often sited as the most basic form of security for the Deathless. Occasionally, the heart, or next animal, is in the egg of the bird (which hasn’t yet been laid), which means you have to catch the dang thing, and get it to lay the egg before you continue.
And then Koschei does some REALLY wacky security measures.
Oooooh Koschei the Undying. Oh dear.. that is some mighty magic there. I expect next year there will be a school house sitting on chicken legs at PS238. [Thanks for bringing in some of my favourite legends.]
Koschei The Deathless is basically a Lich, an immortal evil sorcerer who can’t be killed because his heart (and/or soul, depending on the version of the tale) is hidden elsewhere.
To sum it up. He just put a bunch of heroes in a land with just a pinch of madness who must go after the original lich or where most of modern lore got it’s lore from. It should be noted that the original zombie wasn’t the brain craving swarm we see today, but in fact a corpse brought back by the use of vodo in a more Frankenstein type of manor. Just thought I would say that.
I don’t know about you guys, but I have a feeling that the “eye” is not Koschei’s heart. That would be far too obvious to the readers and where’s the fun in that?
The idiots in that group of course will ignore the gnome, at their peril. 84, being the only one who stops to listen and think, will pay attention and consider his words.
Of course being a relatively young student, there is still that “pay attention when someone is speaking” mentality rooted to a degree in her head.
I Googled the relevant legends. Apparently Koschei was Deathless because he had secured his soul in the eye of a needle, inside an egg, inside a duck, inside a hare, inside an iron (or crystal, or gold) chest, buried under a green oak tree on the isle of Buyan. Possession of the egg was said to secure control of Koschei himself; however, Veles appears to need the needle with Koschei’s soul in its eye.
It may be worth noting that Veles and Koschei come from different mythologies, and may not exactly be best buds (I mean, aside from the way Koschei was said to treat peasants, Veles’ charges).
I knew the bit about his heart being hidden in a needle in an egg in a yadda yada, but your wording makes me think they may need to find a needle’s eye rather than an anatomical eye. (I always imagine the needle in which he hides his heart to be a pin rather than a sewing needle, for some reason.)
Heh, I think I just figured out what this treasure is. What the winner will claim and return to him… It’s like the old legendary riddles and is one word. Something that disrespectful bunch will never be able to get. My only question is how long will the dimwits flounder?
Yeah, but there are a couple of “smart and educated” types in this group who are the sort that should know the myth from having heard it. So it’s not really as secure a test of character and wit as it might be, since ye olde educated hero (as in, the archetypal “know it all”) should recognize Koschei and the egg they’re within.
I don’t think knowledge of any myth-cycle is necessary. Claim Veles’ respect and return it to to him. I was trying to be clever how I said it, with an epic fail. The deathless is a clever red herring for the arrogant ones to run aground on. I see lich vs superhero (pointless) battle coming.
I’d figure 84 for either Strength or Chariot, mr firepants for the Fool, Conjurer for the Hermit, Neuronet for Magician or Hierophant, and Phlogiston for High Priestess, Star, or Hierophant
I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess that she’s about to politely ask the nice dwarf if he could tell them what’s going on while the adults scoff and fly off to confront this Koschei, take the egg and get it over with…
This whole scene is proof that specializing in something is not always a good thing. Especially when you look down on the folks who don’t (or can’t) specialize.
in james branch cabell’s cycle of novels that started with ‘figures of earth’, khoshchei is known as ‘khoshchei the deathless who made things as they are’., i.e. the god of things as they are.
Ah yes, Nodwick. I have to wonder about where that guy got so many of his insane ideas. Scariest part, that comic has given me great ideas to use to muck with players heads! Even if they know its origins, its the personal twist that’ll change things up.
The singing dungeon. Oh, that would be so much fun. If you know what I mean, kudos. If you don’t … Go Read Nodwick! Now! Ok, ok, please go read Nodwick.
For some reason the lyrics “six months in a leaky boat” are bouncing around in my brain.
Kudos for Aaron for utilizing folklore that many of us are not acquainted with. Egyptian, Greek/Roman, Norse tend to get over used. Its a breath of fresh air, and a chance to expand our collective knowledge base.
Russian folklore is quite interesting, and something I’ve been meaning to study up more of. My first (albeit watered down) taste of it was in a game called Quest for Glory IV. The domovoi, gypsies, werewolves, rusalka, vampires, ah, now I have to go play that series again.
Knug, if you want a game that uses a degree of Russian folklore and their style of writing, check out a game called “Leviathan, Last Day of the Decade”. The first chapter is free, albeit short, but it should give you a feel for the style of the game.
Or Mercedes Lackey’s Firebird, which she wrote earlier and really shows her research. (Heck, she brought back the Koschei for The Fairy Godmother and its decidedly Grimm atmosphere just because she liked it so much, or so it seems.)
Hmm… why do I feel this might be is less about choosing an opponent and more about “taking the opportunity to get a bunch of do-gooders to something you are not able to get yourself”?
Well, there might be that angle, but I believe he was honest in his proclamation. There’s no trickery in that, he is completely honest in that regard. He fully intends to label the one who succeeds at this task, as the Champion of Earth.
That’s just the feeling I get. Because sometimes the best tricks are played via honesty.
All these ideas are extremely interesting, but there are a couple things I’m considering here. First is the general feel of the comic, which is mostly light hearted with serious moments. That’s the general feel I’ve been getting and while I haven’t been reader since volume one, I have read the whole series. The feeling is not Grimdark Batman level stuff, I mean look at Revenant. The “Big Moments” will usually be the climax of a story arc rather than things that happen a lot.
(doing this as several posts so its easier to read).
Having her pay an immediate negative price could quickly abort her story line, or move it to a much darker vibe. A negative result could also kick the FISS story line to the curb, and the jive I’m getting is that the author has further plans for the FISS story line.
This doesn’t mean she gets to walk away all smiling and shiny, that’s rather boring, though there are ways even in that to make things interesting. Paying a price later, a price that takes a chunk of time to deal with, or having Victory stolen from her could potentially be interesting as well.
There is also the fact that its not just how she leaves the situation, but how the others do. The author may have just introduced them, and while they may be “background characters” in the scale of things, its also possible he has further plans for them as well. How they handle the victory (or the defeat) is of importance as well. It may not be these guys directly who pay the price, but rather the “specialist” community of adults who pay the price. Lots of potential there. Or said community trying to quickly shovel this shameful event under the rug.
Sorry for the wall of text, a lot of thoughts on the matter. Done!
Good theory. That’s actually highly possible:
– Five of you shall journey to the interior of this egg
– Whoever claims the eye at its heart and brings it to be shall become the new champion of Earth.
Note that Veles never actually says that the egg or the eye belongs to him.
Affably evil villains tend to be more dangerous since they can get the heroes to do their dirty work.
Something tells me that giving the eye to Veles would result in disaster and Julie (and possibly the other four) will get the blame.
If this supposition is true, it’s likely that the other four will want to give the eye to Veles, while Julie figures out what’s going on from the people she listens to along the way and tries to prevent it. The other four either overrule or overpower her, thinking she’s “just a kid,” and when Veles takes the eye from the adults, Julie will get an “I told you” moment while whatever disaster is in the making occurs.
The next question from 84: Do you want some help with your boat? Everybody else is too concerned with the quest to even consider what the little guy’s needs might be.
That would be a classic response for a quest. 84 can help the little guy, who will later give her help in getting past something that the arrogant adults are stuck at.
You know the challenge of helping 1 – 3 people on you way to the end of your quest and in return getting help later is very very much a traditional motif. I suspect you have hit a very important point. Julie is stopping to look around and likely help as needed along the way. The others are simply focused on the end objective.
David, that’s a no brainer. I mean, she already asked for permission to talk. Oh wait, no brainer, that kind of describes the other four. But yes, she is shaping up to be the smart little puppy in the midst of a pack of arrogant wolves. I also have a feeling that before its over, she’ll somehow embarrass at least two of them, if not all of them in some manner, shape or fashion.
They will all be embarrassed to lose the position of the new champion of Earth to a grade school aged F.I.S.S. Additional personal embarrassment will just be the icing on the cake. (And, hopefully the cake gets plenty of frosting.)
Debra, read my above (wall) response for Hogan’s commentary on my thoughts on the matter regarding “victory” or “loss” and how it can affect both sides. It was a bit hefty, but I think this scene is going to have a lot of long term results & consequences. I pity the author on the scripting of these events, as they’re going to potentially have major long term results.
“David, that’s a no brainer. I mean, she already asked for permission to talk. Oh wait, no brainer, that kind of describes the other four.”
Normally you would call a FISS a “muscle bound oaf”. In this world it seems like all the non-Fiss are power bound oafs, with only the FISS and normals having something like common sense.
Comparatively clean, or maybe just the difference between looking through a small amount of water to the bottom of the boat as compared to looking through a large amount of water to the bottom of the moat.
…You know, if you smacked the back of the Conjurer’s helmet just right, it’d go up and flying off in a humorous fashion.
Just saying.
It would be just as interesting to use a stun-gun on it.
Yeah, but 84 doesn’t carry a taser. And the Conjuror has apparently never learned the basic magic of common courtesy.
I have to ask, was the entity who created this place sane at the time? Or sober?
Given we’re talking about Koschei, the answer is probably “no.”
Well, Koschei is from Russian mythology. That stuff can get pretty weird.
Let’s just say when Koschie hides something he plays for keeps. Certain people who shall not be named here were very inspired by his example.
So in other words no and no?
Sane? Not very.
Sober? I think so.
I expect we will see a very obvious hiding spot guarded by several deadly traps and monsters.
Given what I saw from Veles so far the needed object is not there (and can be aquired by asking politely).
Russian, so no on the second one too.
And that obvious hiding spot with all of the monsters will be exactly the wrong place.
drain the dwarf’s boat
Well, let me put it this way: Koschei the Deathless was a powerful magic-using villain in Russian folklore, who tended to go around kidnapping other men’s wives. So the answer is properly, “Sane enough to make killing him very, VERY difficult”.
To further illuminate – Koschei is deathless because (among other things) his heart is not in his body. one example of his standard security for his heart is to put it in a sparrowhawk (or a goose), that’s in a hare, that’s in a fox (though the order of which animal is stuffed alive into which other animal varies), that’s in a Treasure chest (Koschei has the key, usually), that’s embedded in a tree, that’s guarded by a dragon. And no, you have to deal with each animal in turn, no stabbing all three at once. This is often sited as the most basic form of security for the Deathless. Occasionally, the heart, or next animal, is in the egg of the bird (which hasn’t yet been laid), which means you have to catch the dang thing, and get it to lay the egg before you continue.
And then Koschei does some REALLY wacky security measures.
Oooooh Koschei the Undying. Oh dear.. that is some mighty magic there. I expect next year there will be a school house sitting on chicken legs at PS238. [Thanks for bringing in some of my favourite legends.]
Koschei The Deathless is basically a Lich, an immortal evil sorcerer who can’t be killed because his heart (and/or soul, depending on the version of the tale) is hidden elsewhere.
…in the original magic jar spell
I ment to say.
So they are in the original magic jar spell
To sum it up. He just put a bunch of heroes in a land with just a pinch of madness who must go after the original lich or where most of modern lore got it’s lore from. It should be noted that the original zombie wasn’t the brain craving swarm we see today, but in fact a corpse brought back by the use of vodo in a more Frankenstein type of manor. Just thought I would say that.
A lich? And they’re searching for an eye? Hmmm… I wonder if there will be rumors of a missing hand as well. đŸ˜‰
Or missing head?
Chances are they get told that the head is actually the eye they are looking for and they have to replace thier own head in order to get….
Don’t worry- eventually someone will get it. I never did get around to playing or DMing any of those modules, unfortunately.
In my experience, hiding people’s hearts elsewhere makes them dead, not harder to kill! So unrealistic.
Have a lot of experience dealing with liches, do we?
I think that he was implying having experience with removing the heart from living persons … ^_^
I don’t know about you guys, but I have a feeling that the “eye” is not Koschei’s heart. That would be far too obvious to the readers and where’s the fun in that?
The idiots in that group of course will ignore the gnome, at their peril. 84, being the only one who stops to listen and think, will pay attention and consider his words.
Of course being a relatively young student, there is still that “pay attention when someone is speaking” mentality rooted to a degree in her head.
I Googled the relevant legends. Apparently Koschei was Deathless because he had secured his soul in the eye of a needle, inside an egg, inside a duck, inside a hare, inside an iron (or crystal, or gold) chest, buried under a green oak tree on the isle of Buyan. Possession of the egg was said to secure control of Koschei himself; however, Veles appears to need the needle with Koschei’s soul in its eye.
It may be worth noting that Veles and Koschei come from different mythologies, and may not exactly be best buds (I mean, aside from the way Koschei was said to treat peasants, Veles’ charges).
I knew the bit about his heart being hidden in a needle in an egg in a yadda yada, but your wording makes me think they may need to find a needle’s eye rather than an anatomical eye. (I always imagine the needle in which he hides his heart to be a pin rather than a sewing needle, for some reason.)
Apparently, Veles killed the goose in the chest under the tree in the middle of the ocean.
Also, the eye they were told to find is clearly that of a needle.
Heh, I think I just figured out what this treasure is. What the winner will claim and return to him… It’s like the old legendary riddles and is one word. Something that disrespectful bunch will never be able to get. My only question is how long will the dimwits flounder?
Yeah, but there are a couple of “smart and educated” types in this group who are the sort that should know the myth from having heard it. So it’s not really as secure a test of character and wit as it might be, since ye olde educated hero (as in, the archetypal “know it all”) should recognize Koschei and the egg they’re within.
I don’t think knowledge of any myth-cycle is necessary. Claim Veles’ respect and return it to to him. I was trying to be clever how I said it, with an epic fail. The deathless is a clever red herring for the arrogant ones to run aground on. I see lich vs superhero (pointless) battle coming.
I hope those cards are waterproof…
And I wonder how many suits are in that deck. Four, or Five?
Four plus the major arcana- it’s a tarot deck, he’s performing a reading.
So which suits represent which of our five heroes, and which one is the Major Arcana?
I’d figure 84 for either Strength or Chariot, mr firepants for the Fool, Conjurer for the Hermit, Neuronet for Magician or Hierophant, and Phlogiston for High Priestess, Star, or Hierophant
Mostly agree, but I figure Conjurer for Magician, Neuronet for Hierophant.
They’re pretty clearly thick (by playing card standards) wooden placards. I’m more impressed that they’re staying put where they float.
Card float but boat doesn’t? Hmmm
I would pay a lot of attention to that dwarf and it looks like Julie is. Good for 84.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess that she’s about to politely ask the nice dwarf if he could tell them what’s going on while the adults scoff and fly off to confront this Koschei, take the egg and get it over with…
In the same way she politely raised her hand to ask Veles a question? I agree, sir.
This whole scene is proof that specializing in something is not always a good thing. Especially when you look down on the folks who don’t (or can’t) specialize.
in james branch cabell’s cycle of novels that started with ‘figures of earth’, khoshchei is known as ‘khoshchei the deathless who made things as they are’., i.e. the god of things as they are.
I’m sensing an opportunity to have a Nodwick cameo!
Ah yes, Nodwick. I have to wonder about where that guy got so many of his insane ideas. Scariest part, that comic has given me great ideas to use to muck with players heads! Even if they know its origins, its the personal twist that’ll change things up.
The singing dungeon. Oh, that would be so much fun. If you know what I mean, kudos. If you don’t … Go Read Nodwick! Now! Ok, ok, please go read Nodwick.
Please, not the singing dungeon. Reading that episode hurt a lot.
Still wouldn’t miss it but once was enough.
For some reason the lyrics “six months in a leaky boat” are bouncing around in my brain.
Kudos for Aaron for utilizing folklore that many of us are not acquainted with. Egyptian, Greek/Roman, Norse tend to get over used. Its a breath of fresh air, and a chance to expand our collective knowledge base.
Russian folklore is quite interesting, and something I’ve been meaning to study up more of. My first (albeit watered down) taste of it was in a game called Quest for Glory IV. The domovoi, gypsies, werewolves, rusalka, vampires, ah, now I have to go play that series again.
Knug, if you want a game that uses a degree of Russian folklore and their style of writing, check out a game called “Leviathan, Last Day of the Decade”. The first chapter is free, albeit short, but it should give you a feel for the style of the game.
Also, check out Mercedes Lackey’s Fortune’s Fool
Or Mercedes Lackey’s Firebird, which she wrote earlier and really shows her research. (Heck, she brought back the Koschei for The Fairy Godmother and its decidedly Grimm atmosphere just because she liked it so much, or so it seems.)
Hmm… why do I feel this might be is less about choosing an opponent and more about “taking the opportunity to get a bunch of do-gooders to something you are not able to get yourself”?
Well, there might be that angle, but I believe he was honest in his proclamation. There’s no trickery in that, he is completely honest in that regard. He fully intends to label the one who succeeds at this task, as the Champion of Earth.
That’s just the feeling I get. Because sometimes the best tricks are played via honesty.
All these ideas are extremely interesting, but there are a couple things I’m considering here. First is the general feel of the comic, which is mostly light hearted with serious moments. That’s the general feel I’ve been getting and while I haven’t been reader since volume one, I have read the whole series. The feeling is not Grimdark Batman level stuff, I mean look at Revenant. The “Big Moments” will usually be the climax of a story arc rather than things that happen a lot.
(doing this as several posts so its easier to read).
(cont)
Having her pay an immediate negative price could quickly abort her story line, or move it to a much darker vibe. A negative result could also kick the FISS story line to the curb, and the jive I’m getting is that the author has further plans for the FISS story line.
This doesn’t mean she gets to walk away all smiling and shiny, that’s rather boring, though there are ways even in that to make things interesting. Paying a price later, a price that takes a chunk of time to deal with, or having Victory stolen from her could potentially be interesting as well.
(cont)
(cont)
There is also the fact that its not just how she leaves the situation, but how the others do. The author may have just introduced them, and while they may be “background characters” in the scale of things, its also possible he has further plans for them as well. How they handle the victory (or the defeat) is of importance as well. It may not be these guys directly who pay the price, but rather the “specialist” community of adults who pay the price. Lots of potential there. Or said community trying to quickly shovel this shameful event under the rug.
Sorry for the wall of text, a lot of thoughts on the matter. Done!
It could quite easily be both.
Good theory. That’s actually highly possible:
– Five of you shall journey to the interior of this egg
– Whoever claims the eye at its heart and brings it to be shall become the new champion of Earth.
Note that Veles never actually says that the egg or the eye belongs to him.
Affably evil villains tend to be more dangerous since they can get the heroes to do their dirty work.
Something tells me that giving the eye to Veles would result in disaster and Julie (and possibly the other four) will get the blame.
If this supposition is true, it’s likely that the other four will want to give the eye to Veles, while Julie figures out what’s going on from the people she listens to along the way and tries to prevent it. The other four either overrule or overpower her, thinking she’s “just a kid,” and when Veles takes the eye from the adults, Julie will get an “I told you” moment while whatever disaster is in the making occurs.
The next question from 84: Do you want some help with your boat? Everybody else is too concerned with the quest to even consider what the little guy’s needs might be.
That would be a classic response for a quest. 84 can help the little guy, who will later give her help in getting past something that the arrogant adults are stuck at.
You know the challenge of helping 1 – 3 people on you way to the end of your quest and in return getting help later is very very much a traditional motif. I suspect you have hit a very important point. Julie is stopping to look around and likely help as needed along the way. The others are simply focused on the end objective.
Not only is it a traditional motif, it’s pretty much THE motif of ‘Prince Ivan’, which is another Russian fairy tale like Koschei the Deathless..
David, that’s a no brainer. I mean, she already asked for permission to talk. Oh wait, no brainer, that kind of describes the other four. But yes, she is shaping up to be the smart little puppy in the midst of a pack of arrogant wolves. I also have a feeling that before its over, she’ll somehow embarrass at least two of them, if not all of them in some manner, shape or fashion.
They will all be embarrassed to lose the position of the new champion of Earth to a grade school aged F.I.S.S. Additional personal embarrassment will just be the icing on the cake. (And, hopefully the cake gets plenty of frosting.)
Not the mention the leader of the FISS movement. The first of the “numbers”. Leader of the Infinite Vanguards.
Debra, read my above (wall) response for Hogan’s commentary on my thoughts on the matter regarding “victory” or “loss” and how it can affect both sides. It was a bit hefty, but I think this scene is going to have a lot of long term results & consequences. I pity the author on the scripting of these events, as they’re going to potentially have major long term results.
“David, that’s a no brainer. I mean, she already asked for permission to talk. Oh wait, no brainer, that kind of describes the other four.”
Normally you would call a FISS a “muscle bound oaf”. In this world it seems like all the non-Fiss are power bound oafs, with only the FISS and normals having something like common sense.
He doesn’t seem too bothered that his boat is doubling as a bath…
Well, house-boats are a thing. Maybe all the amenities are boats as well. Bed-boats, couch-boats, fridge-boats, microwave-boats, gravy-boats…
What’s interesting, the water in the boat seems different, at least in color, from the water outside.
hopefully, its not slightly warmer, too
Comparatively clean, or maybe just the difference between looking through a small amount of water to the bottom of the boat as compared to looking through a large amount of water to the bottom of the moat.
THIS PAGE should be the start of chapter 2.
It’s annoying to try to find the beginning of a plotline when the chapters are too long. There’s a practical reason for chapterization…