The door knows a lot about our heroes i am sure it knows which answer they can answer and which not.They rules probable prevent that it chooses on that can’t be answered,but i doubt that it will choose one than can be easily answered.
Seeking personal advancement isn’t bad per se, but bad stuff tends to result from not being honest about it. That said, the gatekeeper isn’t so much a moral judge but a question/answer evaluator, so your point sticks.
It is far less surprising once you consider the whole thing is a trial to find an opponent for a trickster God. Guess what basic concept such a person has to have above all else?
Yeah, the funny thing is someone like Lina Inverse probably would have nailed that last question “Beat up the bad guys, loot this place, get rich and famous.”
The answer must be something she knows, for her to not be able to simply say, “I don’t know.”
So it must be something difficult to answer for some other reason.
For Fireduck, it was that he has a low self-opinion, so while he knows that worse about himself is not true he cannot help himself feeling it to be so.
For Conjurer, high self-opinion, so cannot admit to less than the loftiest goals: he’s judged himself and found himself in part to be wanting.
Julie’s self-deception is clearly there, or else she would not have had so many opportunities to learn about leadership on this Hero’s Quest — Veles is a god, he’s bound by certain rules, among them to not just mess around with people for no good reason — and clearly most about leadership.
That will be the most trying question for her to be honest with herself about, to look past her feelings about, and to answer true.
It was established by Firedrake’s failed response that an answer merely being true isn’t good enough. But it could be that whatever magic drives this guardian forces it to give a question that the contender CAN answer correctly.
She has had plenty of opportunity to interact with him. In theory, by now she should know he is entirely reliant on his gadgets. Buuuuut her (possible) infatuation might have left a few stars in her eyes and thus cause her to ascribe to him abilities he does not possess.
I’m pretty sure Julie hasn’t yet felt anything resembling an infatuation with Moonshadow yet, they are kids and it is not really on her mind. Also Julie seems kind of the person who would take Moonshadow’s powers as not really consequential to anything and the rumors are that he has a lot of them so she wouldn’t pay any particular to the gadgets (besides noting he does use them).
Yes, it would even work nicely with everything she learnt in the egg about how your image is different from what you are, and the image is what people judge you upon.
“Final would-be hero” but back on March 2 Rostov said there were six intruders. With everyone else gone, the theories about Conjurer being multiple people in one body or whatever are done. So either Rostov’s count was off, or the sixth and final person isn’t a would-be hero. Invisible tag-along villain? Seems like 84’s question should involve that hole.
Given that the golems at the first gate didn’t have any idea what the Eye was, I have a feeling that the Eye is the sixth intruder. Bonus points if the Eye turns out to be a kid around 84’s age, and Veles was using the heroes to pick her up from what amounts to magic day care.
Very doubtful: it would be extremely out of character for someone like Veles to use such crude control over someone. He wants the heroes to succeed or fail based on their own merits, not whether he shoved them into traps.
The “hero is actually a teenager in disguise” has been done already. Captain Marvel (or Shazam, if you’re a lawyer) and Malibu’s Prime both spring to mind.
Kosh may have asked it as well, but considering all of 84’s story, I think it makes a very good question, and one of the few which may involve self-deception for her.
To pass, she will have to answer honestly, and that answer may not be one she wants to admit.
I expect, however, that though she doesn’t want to admit it, she will.
The gatekeeper also has the problem that 84 has already been through an adventure where she had to dig deep and come up with some answers about herself. She already has some crucial self-knowledge about being the hero people need.
And now I’m certain you’re the same Lycanthromancer from the psionic motivators threat and WotC forums of old. Just wanted to let you know that I’m sorry for discriminating against you back then.
The questions seem to be designed to make the answerer’s hang-ups and self-delusions the real obstacle. Ego, vanity, dishonesty… these will get you booted. I suspect indecisiveness is just as bad. Will the flipside be a hindrance: would lack of self-esteem scuttle an answer?
Even more twisted, would false humility from a “hero” with real performance issues get them past, or is this actually a test of character (and the door is simply telling a half-truth)?
Honestly, saying “I don’t know” should probably work, so long as they entertain any hint of solipsism at the time.
Of course, the gate would probably reply to that with “Technically true, but violates the spirit of the question. Try again.”
Not a test of character: Firedrake answered totally honestly but he still got the boot, because he was wrong. It’s twofold: you need to be smart/aware/discerning enough to know the truth and then you have to be honest enough to tell the truth.
Ha! Called it; helmet-boy is an egomaniacal *bleep*weasel.
And now… we get to the most interesting competitor of them all.
I do wonder how her new ‘rivalry’ with Veles will turn out. She is a bit young still, after all.
Well, Moonshadow has Revenant as a mentor, who addresses and guides them in their weaker areas. Veles would have NO problem advising her about others deciding that she must lead a team without her permission. The others in the party are caught up in arrogance and influence ploys the same way ‘her team’ is. And she is missing her normal sounding boards like Flea and Moonshadow. While the teachers make good advisors for most of the students who have not already begun to spread their wings, the ones already active need advisors still in the field.
This is unfortunate! The others not only had to admit to themselves something that they didn’t want to realize, they had to do it in front of other people. No matter how much she doesn’t want to think about the answer to whatever the question might be, she only has to say it in front of someone who already knows the answer.
As I speculated previously, this is starting to look like an audition – and presumably this is the final round. It’s no longer about skill or special ability. It’s about character.
The Question could be “What are the characteristics of a good Hero ?” She has witnessed, through the tests so far, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Her perception will be tested.
So much for Conjuror’s preaching that it’s not /his/ fault that “the humble stonemason” gets overlooked in favor of the “great architect”.
It may not be his /fault/, but he’s spent his entire career both profiting from it /and/ helping to perpetuate it, because the situation as is suits him /just fine/.
So long, Conjuror. You were a self-entitled douchbag until the very end, and about the only thing putting you ahead of Mindraper or whatever his name was is the fact that your ego issues didn’t get anyone else “killed” in here.
That, and he does his own work, so far as I’ve seen. He wasn’t shy about using his powers to fight, whereas Neuronet immediately sent other people in his stead.
I wonder if 84 has noticed that these questions are designed to be answered. They aren’t BARRIERS.
The first question, only the Conjuror would know how much he was hiding. The others could GUESS that, by his complete mask. The second question, either 84 or Firedrake could have gotten just by being honest.
These questions MAY be transformative, where simply answering the questions CHANGES the quester. After all, the Conjuror could have gotten his goal achieved, recognition as Earth’s Champion… but only if he had opened up about his secrets, or even just ACKNOWLEDGED them.
You know, I think the one thing no one’s suggested is that NO ONE actually wins. 84 could just as easily end up losing like the rest and the solution to dealing with Veles have to be made outside the Egg to him in person rather than someone actually retrieving the Eye.
For a moment I actually thought this was a reference to Samurai Showdown’s Haomaru’s desperation move. That was one difficult move to pull off, and I only saw one person do it consistently.
I’m betting it’ll be something along the lines of “what makes someone a good leader”. She’s had several lessons in that – good examples of being a leader (or not) due to the perception of others, and bad examples of being a leader because you have power and are willing to use it to BE the leader.
And, reluctantly, she has been thrust into the role of leader for the FISS Equality Movement … due to the perception of others who found symbolism in her choices, that she herself didn’t mean to put there.
So.
What has Julie learned, about being a good leader? 🙂
…
Bonus points for Julie if she talks it all through, and then closes with “but I bet I have a LOT left to learn, still”. BEcause that last bit? THAT would be the key bit to making the answer as true as it possibly can be.
I am very disappointed that we did not learn of Conjurer’s secret. Chekhov’s Gun means the information will be revealed, so that means we will see more of him. And I don’t really like him.
It also means the line about needing to bend the rules was for naught.
Point is, we will see him again, because this was set up. That’s what I meant by Chekhov’s gun. You don’t bring that sort of stuff up if you don’t plan to resolve it.
Had we found out, then it would be possible we wouldn’t see him again.
“…Do you like Moon Shadow? Circle Y/N on the note.”
Moe wins.
Agreed.
+1
yes
(to the +1 to the question not trying to answer)
Hahahaha
Do you know who Moon Shadow’s real identity is?
Darn it, I was gonna write that.
By the way, Moe, props for your suggested reply from the mist in the last panel. Not exactly what the mist actually said, but you got it fairly close.
Yeah, but do you like him, or like, like him?
If this is the case then the ride back to Wonderburg should have some good character interaction/development.
Five cookie bet the question is “What is the doorkeeper’s name?”
The question is about self-deception, but I like the way you think.
The door knows a lot about our heroes i am sure it knows which answer they can answer and which not.They rules probable prevent that it chooses on that can’t be answered,but i doubt that it will choose one than can be easily answered.
Wasn’t he the guy playing cards in the boat?
Waaait a minute…. “Man in the Mists”? I’m not betting against you, you already know what you’re going to ask her!
The funny thing is, he’s not being condemned for seeking personal advancement, but simply for not being honest about it.
Seeking personal advancement isn’t bad per se, but bad stuff tends to result from not being honest about it. That said, the gatekeeper isn’t so much a moral judge but a question/answer evaluator, so your point sticks.
It is far less surprising once you consider the whole thing is a trial to find an opponent for a trickster God. Guess what basic concept such a person has to have above all else?
Yeah, the funny thing is someone like Lina Inverse probably would have nailed that last question “Beat up the bad guys, loot this place, get rich and famous.”
I’m sure Veles would love to have an opponent like Lina Inverse.
It would be something new, different from the kind of opposition he’s used to.
I’m kind of impressed how somebody with no visible face can look so put-out. XD
The power of body language.
Shouldn’t have said that word “only,” Conjuror…
I was expecting some sort of dark secret or villainous reveal instead of something this simple and shallow (of Conjuror, not the writing, mind you).
But this will do. This will do. Farewell, conjuror.
What is 1/2 + 1/3? (At her age, it’s a pretty difficult question…)
That’s what I figured, a Math question from the classes she missed or ‘Cheryl’s birthday’.
If he picks a math question or something difficult that she doesnt know the answer to, she can answer,
“I don’t know.”
That would be truthful.
That is the trap.
The answer must be something she knows, for her to not be able to simply say, “I don’t know.”
So it must be something difficult to answer for some other reason.
For Fireduck, it was that he has a low self-opinion, so while he knows that worse about himself is not true he cannot help himself feeling it to be so.
For Conjurer, high self-opinion, so cannot admit to less than the loftiest goals: he’s judged himself and found himself in part to be wanting.
Julie’s self-deception is clearly there, or else she would not have had so many opportunities to learn about leadership on this Hero’s Quest — Veles is a god, he’s bound by certain rules, among them to not just mess around with people for no good reason — and clearly most about leadership.
That will be the most trying question for her to be honest with herself about, to look past her feelings about, and to answer true.
I guess.
It was established by Firedrake’s failed response that an answer merely being true isn’t good enough. But it could be that whatever magic drives this guardian forces it to give a question that the contender CAN answer correctly.
I’m going to go ahead and guess it will have something to do with the FISS group.
“Who is your hero?”
“What do you want to be when you grow up?”
So it won’t be personal, as “personal ones are the best, but…”
You know what I would ask her?
What are moonshadow’s powers.
She has had plenty of opportunity to interact with him. In theory, by now she should know he is entirely reliant on his gadgets. Buuuuut her (possible) infatuation might have left a few stars in her eyes and thus cause her to ascribe to him abilities he does not possess.
I’m pretty sure Julie hasn’t yet felt anything resembling an infatuation with Moonshadow yet, they are kids and it is not really on her mind. Also Julie seems kind of the person who would take Moonshadow’s powers as not really consequential to anything and the rumors are that he has a lot of them so she wouldn’t pay any particular to the gadgets (besides noting he does use them).
Yes, it would even work nicely with everything she learnt in the egg about how your image is different from what you are, and the image is what people judge you upon.
It would still be truthful.
“Final would-be hero” but back on March 2 Rostov said there were six intruders. With everyone else gone, the theories about Conjurer being multiple people in one body or whatever are done. So either Rostov’s count was off, or the sixth and final person isn’t a would-be hero. Invisible tag-along villain? Seems like 84’s question should involve that hole.
Ahhh, but that doesn’t mean the other person IS a hero, just…there.
I think the sixth person caught in Rastov’s trap was supposed to be Rastov himself.
Given that the golems at the first gate didn’t have any idea what the Eye was, I have a feeling that the Eye is the sixth intruder. Bonus points if the Eye turns out to be a kid around 84’s age, and Veles was using the heroes to pick her up from what amounts to magic day care.
The Eye is the eye of a needle.
At this point I wonder whether Neuronet(?) was actually Veles all along.
Very doubtful: it would be extremely out of character for someone like Veles to use such crude control over someone. He wants the heroes to succeed or fail based on their own merits, not whether he shoved them into traps.
What…is your favorite color?
What is the airspeed of an unladen swallow?
11 feet per second, or 24 miles per hour.
Is that for an European or African Swallow?
European, Happy. Africa Swallows average slightly faster (but near enough that it’s almost negligible.)
…it was only a matter of time before someone asked that.
I find the way his fancy language and poses just snapped and dropped to ‘teen that hasn’t gotten his own way’ to be hilarious.
THAT would be a twist: Conjuror turning out, under that mask, to be a teenager.
The “hero is actually a teenager in disguise” has been done already. Captain Marvel (or Shazam, if you’re a lawyer) and Malibu’s Prime both spring to mind.
Spider-Man too.
Is it wrong that I heard Krieger’s voice in that little tirade?
I’m guessing the question will be “Who are you?”
*thinks* *nods*
Good one.
Yeah, but Kosh the Vorlon already used that line.
What do you want?
A pony!
No wait, that was my sister at that age, not 84.
Kosh may have asked it as well, but considering all of 84’s story, I think it makes a very good question, and one of the few which may involve self-deception for her.
To pass, she will have to answer honestly, and that answer may not be one she wants to admit.
I expect, however, that though she doesn’t want to admit it, she will.
Whaddya know, I was right. 🙂 Dinged for an incomplete answer.
Not just that, but you pretty closely pegged what was incomplete about it. Nicely done.
The gatekeeper also has the problem that 84 has already been through an adventure where she had to dig deep and come up with some answers about herself. She already has some crucial self-knowledge about being the hero people need.
What… is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
European or African swallow?
“Spit or swallow?”
…Okay, now I feel bad.
And now I’m certain you’re the same Lycanthromancer from the psionic motivators threat and WotC forums of old. Just wanted to let you know that I’m sorry for discriminating against you back then.
*thread, not threat
Tiredness :/
The questions seem to be designed to make the answerer’s hang-ups and self-delusions the real obstacle. Ego, vanity, dishonesty… these will get you booted. I suspect indecisiveness is just as bad. Will the flipside be a hindrance: would lack of self-esteem scuttle an answer?
Even more twisted, would false humility from a “hero” with real performance issues get them past, or is this actually a test of character (and the door is simply telling a half-truth)?
I suspect that the key here is the “challenge” presented. What aspect of herself could pose a challenge to 84? I smell character development… 😉
“Are you a leader?”
Too factual, maybe? After all, she must be one in some manner to have been chosen by Velez.
Rather, maybe: “Why/how are you a leader among heroes?”
Honestly, saying “I don’t know” should probably work, so long as they entertain any hint of solipsism at the time.
Of course, the gate would probably reply to that with “Technically true, but violates the spirit of the question. Try again.”
Not a test of character: Firedrake answered totally honestly but he still got the boot, because he was wrong. It’s twofold: you need to be smart/aware/discerning enough to know the truth and then you have to be honest enough to tell the truth.
Well that was a bit… anti-climactic for the Conjuror. And the number of contestants seems to have dropped by two with his disappearance.
I think the drama will come later, especially since 84 will almost certainly “win.”
Ha! Called it; helmet-boy is an egomaniacal *bleep*weasel.
And now… we get to the most interesting competitor of them all.
I do wonder how her new ‘rivalry’ with Veles will turn out. She is a bit young still, after all.
Veles actually seemed to respect her, so it’ll probably be a trickster-mentor and pupil relationship.
Well, Moonshadow has Revenant as a mentor, who addresses and guides them in their weaker areas. Veles would have NO problem advising her about others deciding that she must lead a team without her permission. The others in the party are caught up in arrogance and influence ploys the same way ‘her team’ is. And she is missing her normal sounding boards like Flea and Moonshadow. While the teachers make good advisors for most of the students who have not already begun to spread their wings, the ones already active need advisors still in the field.
props to Mr.Williams for keeping us in suspense waiting to see what the question/answer will be
There are all sorts of personal questions to which the true answer could be “I don’t know”.
I like 84’s body language on this page.
It warms my heart to just see Conjurer throwing a tantrum at the end when he didn’t get what he wanted.
Not to mention seeing him cut off midway through his rant…
I am in full agreement with both the previous statements. ^_^
Well, now we know who would have been the correct answer to the first question. Hiding behind a mask indeed.
“True”
This is unfortunate! The others not only had to admit to themselves something that they didn’t want to realize, they had to do it in front of other people. No matter how much she doesn’t want to think about the answer to whatever the question might be, she only has to say it in front of someone who already knows the answer.
I meant unfair, not unfortunate, but the spell check got me.
As I speculated previously, this is starting to look like an audition – and presumably this is the final round. It’s no longer about skill or special ability. It’s about character.
The Question could be “What are the characteristics of a good Hero ?” She has witnessed, through the tests so far, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Her perception will be tested.
I think it might be something like What is a hero?
So much for Conjuror’s preaching that it’s not /his/ fault that “the humble stonemason” gets overlooked in favor of the “great architect”.
It may not be his /fault/, but he’s spent his entire career both profiting from it /and/ helping to perpetuate it, because the situation as is suits him /just fine/.
Actually, it is his fault, if he perpetuates it. He’s not even a bystander.
It’s just not *entirely* his fault.
So long, Conjuror. You were a self-entitled douchbag until the very end, and about the only thing putting you ahead of Mindraper or whatever his name was is the fact that your ego issues didn’t get anyone else “killed” in here.
That, and he does his own work, so far as I’ve seen. He wasn’t shy about using his powers to fight, whereas Neuronet immediately sent other people in his stead.
I wonder if 84 has noticed that these questions are designed to be answered. They aren’t BARRIERS.
The first question, only the Conjuror would know how much he was hiding. The others could GUESS that, by his complete mask. The second question, either 84 or Firedrake could have gotten just by being honest.
These questions MAY be transformative, where simply answering the questions CHANGES the quester. After all, the Conjuror could have gotten his goal achieved, recognition as Earth’s Champion… but only if he had opened up about his secrets, or even just ACKNOWLEDGED them.
“Do you like movies about gladiators?”
Nice username 🙂
“What is your name?”
“What… is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?”
I don’t know about you, but from the side the helmet almost makes him look like an annoyed squawking chicken with its mouth wide open.
Then again, I’m strange.
Now that you’ve pointed it out, I see it.
And I love it! 😀 Thank you for pointing this out.
Dang. Now I can’t unsee that…
“Why do you call yuorself 84?”
Yes its her number but, do we realy know?
Anything but a math word problem. Anything but a math word problem. Anything but a…
Now *that* is the mind of an eight-year-old! 🙂
If you had a three gallon bucket and a 5 gallon bucket and were told to get four gallons of water how many buckets do you have?
reply went to the wrong place. IGNORE ME
You know, I think the one thing no one’s suggested is that NO ONE actually wins. 84 could just as easily end up losing like the rest and the solution to dealing with Veles have to be made outside the Egg to him in person rather than someone actually retrieving the Eye.
Guys, I am pretty sure her question is going to be something to do with the FISS, such as if/how she plans to lead them.
Hey, the mist already gave her the answer!
“Answer me ‘true.'”
That was a imperative statement, not a question.
Like how you think though,
“Speak friend and enter?”
If you had a three gallon bucket and a 5 gallon bucket and were told to get four gallons of water how many buckets do you have?
“What is the godmode code for Samurai Sword Slashers for the Super Gamebasher Deluxe?”
For a moment I actually thought this was a reference to Samurai Showdown’s Haomaru’s desperation move. That was one difficult move to pull off, and I only saw one person do it consistently.
I’m betting it’ll be something along the lines of “what makes someone a good leader”. She’s had several lessons in that – good examples of being a leader (or not) due to the perception of others, and bad examples of being a leader because you have power and are willing to use it to BE the leader.
And, reluctantly, she has been thrust into the role of leader for the FISS Equality Movement … due to the perception of others who found symbolism in her choices, that she herself didn’t mean to put there.
So.
What has Julie learned, about being a good leader? 🙂
…
Bonus points for Julie if she talks it all through, and then closes with “but I bet I have a LOT left to learn, still”. BEcause that last bit? THAT would be the key bit to making the answer as true as it possibly can be.
What is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?!?!
What is the abbreviation for Compact Disc?
A. BC
B. CD
C. DE
D. LMNOP
…B?
The answer is B C D.
Next question!
Our land (Australia) is girt by:
A) Sea
B) Eh?
C) Bees
I am very disappointed that we did not learn of Conjurer’s secret. Chekhov’s Gun means the information will be revealed, so that means we will see more of him. And I don’t really like him.
It also means the line about needing to bend the rules was for naught.
I’m fine with never finding out if that means we never have to see the blathering weasel again.
Nor Neuronet.
Probably see both of them on exiting, anyway – it’s unlikely that they just stormed off in a huff after being kicked out.
Don’t you want to see the looks on their (and everyone else’s) faces when Julie emerges victorious? I know I sure do.
Hmm… Naw. I’d be fine with Julie commenting on a newspaper article that the two of them were sent t supervillain jail for the next fifty years.
Point is, we will see him again, because this was set up. That’s what I meant by Chekhov’s gun. You don’t bring that sort of stuff up if you don’t plan to resolve it.
Had we found out, then it would be possible we wouldn’t see him again.