‘A four on the Vetinari Scale’ Nice Discworld reference. But Headmaster, I hope you don’t think yourself a ten, because the ideal is one. Which is exactly as many people can achieve that rank, namely, Lord Vetinari himself.
I’d say that the ideal is to not even be on the scale at all unless you need someone to know how much of a sneaky-bastard you are.
Second to that is the ability to put yourself one lower than someone you want to try something foolish against you or one higher than someone you want to leave you alone. 😀
He should be more careful about that… His own analysis shows that he’s playing with fire and if he’s half as clever as he thinks he is he should know that someone’s going to beat him eventually.
Then again insanity and paranoia inducing nano-tech armor >.>
Alas that scale is rather opaque for some of us. (and driving to a library is not budget friendly out here) Hope they explain what that means in context as some examples would be helpful…
If you don’t care to look up the entire Wikipedia entry, these quotes seem most pertinent:
“While he is just as unpopular as those that came before him, Lord Vetinari is very much sane, of sound mind and judgment, and very much still alive. He has achieved this by ensuring that even though all power-wielding groups in the city dislike him, they dislike each other even more. He also carefully arranges matters so that a reality which includes him as Patrician is slightly better than one which does not…”
“Vetinari’s rule over the city seems to be cemented by the general acknowledgement that very little goes on in the city that Vetinari does not know about. Thus, when a visitor stands in audience with the Patrician, they can be assured that Vetinari knows exactly why they’re there, even if the visitor does not.”
“Vetinari has no lust for power. The sole reason for his ruling the city is that he is fiercely loyal to it, although it is also at times been implied that he does it because it amuses him to do so, in the sense that he enjoys outwitting all the people who try to oppose him. ”
(I’d quibble, though not disagree, with the “lust for power” vs. “fiercely loyal” characterization – he strikes me more as “powerlust level undetermined” and “civic-mindedness frequently vastly underestimated” – but otherwise, yeah, Vetinari. Twisty man who seems like a static observer until you realize he knows exactly which lever to slightly nudge to create a cascade of desirable-to-him effects.)
Vetinari’s idea to control crime levels, to create a Thieves Guild, elect a guild master, make him a powerful and respected member of city politics, invite him to all the counsel dinners, then inform him that if crime isn’t reduced to tolerable levels HE would be held accountable. One of the main duties of the guild is to find unlicenced thieves and hang them from a handy wall by their ears.
Vetinari’s idea of encouraging the commander of the watch to find the person behind a rash of problems plaguing the city is to FORBID him from investigating the problem due to the fact that it would discomfort the corrupt officials the commander hates.
Vetinari’s idea of fixing the post office, reforming banking and currency, and repairing the Clacks (a simafore based text messaging system) was it put them under the control of the biggest con man in history, a man “put to death” for his crimes (I know he’s dead, I saw him hung until dead), and then not doing anything to stop him when he tries to con the entire city.
He rules less by orders than by making sure the right people are in the right place to do what they would normally do, and solve the problem before it occurs.
Yeah me too – seriously, I saw the TP books in the store right after Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy came out and I thought – ‘aha! Some publisher has made a packet off of off the wall Science Fiction so some OTHER publisher has hired some HACK to do off the wall FANTASY in an attempt to cash in!
Well! I’m far to clever to fall for THAT so I ignored the first 3 or 4 TP books I saw until I read a message on SlashDot raving about them and I thought shit I remember those maybe I better check them out and wound up buying ALL of them….
Discworld by Terry Pratchett. there are 40+ books in the series now so grabbing 5-6 books per library trip might the make whole thing more cost effective.
Every (good) library should have a few Discworld books. Obviously, no library will have them all, but that makes it fun! The surprise!
It’s a very good thing that you can basically read them in an entirely random order, because in my experience, you will.
That raisse one question:
Was this before he met her in the previous story?
Or is this afterwards and is the headmaster not aware that he is already a member of this organsiation?
Why would there need to be blind spots? The Headmaster could be perfectly well aware that he already is interested in 84.
Though I must point out that no one is sure how the organization is forming in the first place. I always assumed the Headmaster had something to do with it.
Not that I really understand the guy. Why is he intentionally crafting metahumans that will eventually be able to outsmart him? Isn’t he incredibly worried about them? Isn’t the academy a way to keep them in line?
And, by keep them in line, I mean keep him under his control, so they will be safe. Make a metahuman that figures out his game, and he ceases to be able to control them.
He willingly informed Alexandria von Fogg of his “game”, and he’s still absolutely sure he’ll be able to control her. Then again, this is a von Fogg we’re talking about. 🙂
;_; Have to wait for new comics. Dang it. This series is really fun to read.
I tried to find buyable merchandise, but… I only found some of these books on Amazon.
I also appreciate the discworld reference – although clearly from the use the scale is a larger is more Machiavellian. (So where does Machiavelli fall on the Vetniari scale).
On an unrelated mater – the captcha presented on this site (from sweetCaptcha) is totally inappropriate for a site that might appeal to children. The one presented was “Drag to bring the piggy his cigar”.
Really, you think that providing a lethal drug (which kill 6 million people a year) to a cartoon pig is an appropriate image.
Who sponsors this captcha? RJR Reynolds?
You might want to check your captcha settings maybe there is some way to make it only present captchas appropriate for a general audience?
Easy there. This is appropriate for a general audience. Cigars, cigarettes, and pipes are part of the world. They exist in many homes and in many families. Pretending they don’t exist is just putting your head in the sand. Most kids that would be able to navigate to this site and consider it necessary to scroll down to post a comment have already seen smoking and understand what it implies.
Give kids a break – they are more aware than you realize.
My hypothesis about Vetinari is that he is a benign sociopath.
First, he’s definitely a sociopath, because pretty much by definition everybody who succeeded in the Assassin Guild’s course of education is a sociopath.
Every sociopath (and lots of others who aren’t; google Dunning-Kruger effect) thinks he or she is smarter than they really are. I always wonder, if they’re so smart, why do they commit so much damage? Wouldn’t the smart thing be to avoid trouble by either merely refraining from misbehaving or actually being of some use?
Vetinari is unusual, if not unique, in that he actually *is* as smart as he thinks he is–and he demonstrates it by making himself useful. He improves his own environment by managing the unmanageable: Ankh-Morpork.
Going by “Young Academicals,” he also at least understands empathy and morality on an intellectual level, even if he doesn’t necessarily practice them himself.
“Vetinari scale”. Excellent use of a Pratchett reference.
‘A four on the Vetinari Scale’ Nice Discworld reference. But Headmaster, I hope you don’t think yourself a ten, because the ideal is one. Which is exactly as many people can achieve that rank, namely, Lord Vetinari himself.
I liked the reference as well, and I really enjoyed your analysis thereof of the Vetinari scale. ^^
One man, one vote.
He’s the man, so he gets the vote.
(also, gotta love the Paul Kidby illustrations of him in The Last Hero)
Got to love the original cover art for them.
I’d say that the ideal is to not even be on the scale at all unless you need someone to know how much of a sneaky-bastard you are.
Second to that is the ability to put yourself one lower than someone you want to try something foolish against you or one higher than someone you want to leave you alone. 😀
He sure is training some really savvy supervillains there ^^
He should be more careful about that… His own analysis shows that he’s playing with fire and if he’s half as clever as he thinks he is he should know that someone’s going to beat him eventually.
Then again insanity and paranoia inducing nano-tech armor >.>
Actually, IronDino, I was going to raise a related question: Just how high does Lord Vetinari rate on the Vetinari scale? [grin]
Alas that scale is rather opaque for some of us. (and driving to a library is not budget friendly out here) Hope they explain what that means in context as some examples would be helpful…
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard
this… kind of sums up who and what Lord Vetinari is 😀
If you don’t care to look up the entire Wikipedia entry, these quotes seem most pertinent:
“While he is just as unpopular as those that came before him, Lord Vetinari is very much sane, of sound mind and judgment, and very much still alive. He has achieved this by ensuring that even though all power-wielding groups in the city dislike him, they dislike each other even more. He also carefully arranges matters so that a reality which includes him as Patrician is slightly better than one which does not…”
“Vetinari’s rule over the city seems to be cemented by the general acknowledgement that very little goes on in the city that Vetinari does not know about. Thus, when a visitor stands in audience with the Patrician, they can be assured that Vetinari knows exactly why they’re there, even if the visitor does not.”
“Vetinari has no lust for power. The sole reason for his ruling the city is that he is fiercely loyal to it, although it is also at times been implied that he does it because it amuses him to do so, in the sense that he enjoys outwitting all the people who try to oppose him. ”
(I’d quibble, though not disagree, with the “lust for power” vs. “fiercely loyal” characterization – he strikes me more as “powerlust level undetermined” and “civic-mindedness frequently vastly underestimated” – but otherwise, yeah, Vetinari. Twisty man who seems like a static observer until you realize he knows exactly which lever to slightly nudge to create a cascade of desirable-to-him effects.)
Vetinari’s idea to control crime levels, to create a Thieves Guild, elect a guild master, make him a powerful and respected member of city politics, invite him to all the counsel dinners, then inform him that if crime isn’t reduced to tolerable levels HE would be held accountable. One of the main duties of the guild is to find unlicenced thieves and hang them from a handy wall by their ears.
Vetinari’s idea of encouraging the commander of the watch to find the person behind a rash of problems plaguing the city is to FORBID him from investigating the problem due to the fact that it would discomfort the corrupt officials the commander hates.
Vetinari’s idea of fixing the post office, reforming banking and currency, and repairing the Clacks (a simafore based text messaging system) was it put them under the control of the biggest con man in history, a man “put to death” for his crimes (I know he’s dead, I saw him hung until dead), and then not doing anything to stop him when he tries to con the entire city.
He rules less by orders than by making sure the right people are in the right place to do what they would normally do, and solve the problem before it occurs.
You’ve never read the Discworld series? Man, I remember what it was like to read my first Discworld novel; you’re gonna have so much *fun*…
Yeah me too – seriously, I saw the TP books in the store right after Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy came out and I thought – ‘aha! Some publisher has made a packet off of off the wall Science Fiction so some OTHER publisher has hired some HACK to do off the wall FANTASY in an attempt to cash in!
Well! I’m far to clever to fall for THAT so I ignored the first 3 or 4 TP books I saw until I read a message on SlashDot raving about them and I thought shit I remember those maybe I better check them out and wound up buying ALL of them….
Discworld by Terry Pratchett. there are 40+ books in the series now so grabbing 5-6 books per library trip might the make whole thing more cost effective.
Every (good) library should have a few Discworld books. Obviously, no library will have them all, but that makes it fun! The surprise!
It’s a very good thing that you can basically read them in an entirely random order, because in my experience, you will.
Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vetinari
Nice Discworld reference, but the Headmaster is a ******* ******** to do this to a bunch of kids — not that it comes as any great surprise. =_=
I wonder whether the Prefect is an avatar of Praetorian Academy’s AI…
Technically, the *Headmaster* is the avatar of Praetorian Academy’s AI/itself.
That said, I think I know where you’re coming from. I’ve been getting Lt. Cmdr. Data vibes from the Prefect since he was first introduced.
He’s the headmaster of a private supervillain-training academy. I’m pretty sure being a ******** ******** is part of the job description.
I like his expression when he learns that his internet traffic is being monitored. I wonder what kind of website he’s worried about…
Given age, I suspect he’s a closet MLP:FIM fan.
I about choked on my tea when I read this! 🙂 And yes, I agree with your assessment.
+1 internets for you.
I should not have read that while I was eating hot pizza.
My
hatcreepy face-concealing cowl is off to you.Is this before or after he met 84?
That raisse one question:
Was this before he met her in the previous story?
Or is this afterwards and is the headmaster not aware that he is already a member of this organsiation?
I hope it’s afterwards, and that there are blind spots in the headmaster’s knowledge. I really do.
Why would there need to be blind spots? The Headmaster could be perfectly well aware that he already is interested in 84.
Though I must point out that no one is sure how the organization is forming in the first place. I always assumed the Headmaster had something to do with it.
Not that I really understand the guy. Why is he intentionally crafting metahumans that will eventually be able to outsmart him? Isn’t he incredibly worried about them? Isn’t the academy a way to keep them in line?
And, by keep them in line, I mean keep him under his control, so they will be safe. Make a metahuman that figures out his game, and he ceases to be able to control them.
He willingly informed Alexandria von Fogg of his “game”, and he’s still absolutely sure he’ll be able to control her. Then again, this is a von Fogg we’re talking about. 🙂
I assumed it was afterwards, and the web browser history is only what the headmaster is using as an excuse for knowing what Ajax is interested in.
Is common sense considered a minor super power too?
No, but studies indicate that having superpowers can leave one less likely to actually use Common Sense. See the Moonshadow case-study ….
There needs to be an official chart of the Vetinari scale. At what level does one become a fully qualified eyebrow-raiser, for example?
I’m not sure of the exact level, but I know it’s pretty close to ‘flunking Camouflage because you are never seen in class’.
I admit I’m also curious who laid it out – and whether they were smart enough that they’d be pegged as a solid zero on the scale. 🙂
You have my vote to replace the school system with yours now!
We’d certainly all learn useful life skills!
;_; Have to wait for new comics. Dang it. This series is really fun to read.
I tried to find buyable merchandise, but… I only found some of these books on Amazon.
…ummm… But at 4 on the Vetinari scale you don’t get villains (super or otherwise); from 4 down to 1 (Vetinari himself) you’re getting MASTERMINDS…
I also appreciate the discworld reference – although clearly from the use the scale is a larger is more Machiavellian. (So where does Machiavelli fall on the Vetniari scale).
On an unrelated mater – the captcha presented on this site (from sweetCaptcha) is totally inappropriate for a site that might appeal to children. The one presented was “Drag to bring the piggy his cigar”.
Really, you think that providing a lethal drug (which kill 6 million people a year) to a cartoon pig is an appropriate image.
Who sponsors this captcha? RJR Reynolds?
You might want to check your captcha settings maybe there is some way to make it only present captchas appropriate for a general audience?
@ M H
Easy there. This is appropriate for a general audience. Cigars, cigarettes, and pipes are part of the world. They exist in many homes and in many families. Pretending they don’t exist is just putting your head in the sand. Most kids that would be able to navigate to this site and consider it necessary to scroll down to post a comment have already seen smoking and understand what it implies.
Give kids a break – they are more aware than you realize.
Oh noes! They will know about teh smoking! And then immediately begin a ten-ciggies-a-day addiction, because children are literally sheep!
I hope they aren’t literally sheep, or we’d have some trouble explaining the genetics of it all…
And they’re not actually evil! They mean quite well.
This comic is awesome.
Maybe. Good intentions don’t amount to much if the means wind up blowing up in their faces…
My hypothesis about Vetinari is that he is a benign sociopath.
First, he’s definitely a sociopath, because pretty much by definition everybody who succeeded in the Assassin Guild’s course of education is a sociopath.
Every sociopath (and lots of others who aren’t; google Dunning-Kruger effect) thinks he or she is smarter than they really are. I always wonder, if they’re so smart, why do they commit so much damage? Wouldn’t the smart thing be to avoid trouble by either merely refraining from misbehaving or actually being of some use?
Vetinari is unusual, if not unique, in that he actually *is* as smart as he thinks he is–and he demonstrates it by making himself useful. He improves his own environment by managing the unmanageable: Ankh-Morpork.
Going by “Young Academicals,” he also at least understands empathy and morality on an intellectual level, even if he doesn’t necessarily practice them himself.