Maybe they think it will work out because of how the two sets of powers (order and chaos) are supposed to balance. I can see someone imagining the “twins” ending up with a ying-yang dynamic. Also, this plan seems like a work in progress, not finalized details. That said…it’s still a terrible idea.
So the surface read is that Zodon wants the chaos stuff. But I’m wondering if he honestly thinks he’s the only one that can keep it safe (probably), and if there’s not also an ulterior motive of keeping Tyler safe. As much as he likes to tweak him, I can’t help but think he would be upset if something happened to the guy.
I think he is concerned that if Tyler gets powers, he won’t be able to bully him anymore. And if he gets /chaos/ powers, Tyler might turn around and seek revenge.
I’m not as sure bullying him is that much of a goal. He likes snarking his annoyance of idiots and while Tyler is annoying, he isn’t a threat. I think he’s slotting Tyler into a Watson/audience/pet/fond minion role. The weems language is not aimed at Tyler and his venom is aimed at those who should be better like parents and pistonic.
Z seems to be showing more to be a very, VERY bruised idealist who is continually pissed of at just how BAD people and supposed heroes are. Other than those who directly get in his way, his most cutting words are for the false heroes…
I suspect he may have figured out Tyler/Moonshadow and he does respect him for staying more heroic/not self-serving than the pros. Ty might block power plots, but he can also work to protect Zpdon’s future subjects from the idiots and asses. Not as bright but capable and trustworthy, and reliable agents are worth their weight in gold…
I seem to recall Zodon has made critical remarks of the Revenant also, but not as frequently as he does about Tyler’s parents or the teachers. Admittedly, he’s around Tyler’s parents and the teachers more.
It feels to me like anyone sane would want the chaos goop contained, and Zodon’s possibly the closest we have to a sane character in this. That’s by no means an attempt to say that Zodon is sane, so it is certainly possible he also has an ulterior motive for being its holder.
I absolutely agree with him being a very bruised idealist. That said, I’m having a difficult time identifying a false hero who has interacted with Zodon and hasn’t gotten in Zodon’s way. I mean, they tend to work together, and thwarting Zodon because he’s `clearly evil` seems like it’s pretty high on their priority lists.
Zodon is VERY MUCH the Villain who’s a villain because they’re trying to do good, and everybody else taken as a collective are BLATHERING LACKWITS who’re ignorant at best and downright malicious at worst. In other words, the BEST KIND of villain.
I think Zodon does not understand his feelings towards Tyler, because they are a mix of pity, envy, annoyance, kinship, protectiveness, fondness etc. and super intellect stacked on natural intellect does not equal wisdom and he’s a child.
Zodon knows that Tyler’s “parents” are at least as bad as his own in regards to why can’t you be different. Because of the fact that alternate Zodon’s “parents” stole from him and abandoned him I don’t know its entirely Zodon’s fault either. Zodon was able to dump his parents Tyler was not.
Zodon also has to deal with the fact that even the space that’s supposed to be there to build him up is choosing a normal child over him. All the teachers love and pity Tyler. Tyler is proberly the second most popular kid in school after Moonshadow and Zodon is still being treated like a pest. And he’s telling himself that he does not want the teachers pity anyways.
My guess is Zodon both wants to protect Tyler and to hit him over the head with reality. And I think he does and he doesn’t want Tyler to become as jaded as he is.
I also think Zodon does think he’s the most capable of keeping everyone including himself safe from the buildup.
I think Zodon is not ready to admit to being a good person or a truely evil person so if he does something evil he has good reason and if he does something good he has a selfish reason.
I think he likes and respects Tyler just a little, a lot more than the powered people around who keep leaving him in the danger zone, he might see Tyler like the annoying pest of a little brother: a pest and sometimes cutely affective. He likes the non powered kid more than almost all the other kids, recognizing they are both outsiders. I jusr wonder if and when he figures out he’s also Moonshadow as he uses reason more and there are enough clues even if too many are blind. Zodon might be smart enough to figure it out.
It would do him good to understand there’s more to all this than powers. The boy needs a real friend, not just a needy AI. He hasn’t realized the evergreen challenge of taking down baddies (enlightened self interest) and giggles.
I doubt Zodon in any way cares for Tyler. I don’t think he sees Tyler as a threat; at most he sees him as a nuisance- meaning in the villainous scheme of things he’s just an object of annoyance (like a jinx, because he keeps appearing when Zodon’s plots go awry) or ridicule (“normal boy”), but not someone you go out of way to harm or humiliate.
And yet that’s miles above how Tyler’s parents treat him.
I think there’s an implication that one of the reasons Zodon picks on Tyler is he’s projecting his own problems with his parents on to Tyler. Zodon’s parents wished Zodon wasn’t a metahuman and Tyler’s parents wished the opposite. I kinda see what he’s doing here, and his bullying in general, as a ‘nah nah, see, your parents don’t love you the way you are either.’
Zodon’s expressed cynical concern for Tyler almost from the beginning, feeling that ‘Normal Boy’ shouldn’t be around them and the dangerous situations inherent in being around supers. The idea of him seeing Tyler as a mirror of him isn’t unrealistic to see, one with parents that wished their child was normal the other with parents willing to risk destroying their own child’s body and mind to make him NOT normal. While he tries to make it seem like he’s in it for himself I’d say Zodon actually is doing it for Tyler’s sake to save him from his parents and the rest of their idiot companions. He just tries to paint it as selfish reasons because he doesn’t want people to think he’s going ‘soft.’
That’s a pretty good interpretation, that Zodon’s trying to let Tyler know that his parents really don’t have his best interests at heart. This is the kid that put his parents all the way in another dimension, after all.
Yeah, but as much as his parents hurt him, he knows it’s not malicious or physically harmful like Tyler’s parents. After all, he not only didn’t harm them, but sent them to a place where they would be safe and happier. He may be bitter, but he didn’t hurt them.
Tyler’s parents are not as kind or responsible as Zodon– think about that. I suspect he thinks of himself as an evil genius, but his actions are far more neutral and sometimes heroic. He far better than he gives himself credit for. At some point someone will point that out to him.
If he didn’t then he wouldn’t be telling him and wasting time. He also isn’t trying to hurt his feelings with it.
Weirdly it seems emotional and physical bruises are fair game but does care for Tyler.
He has felt Tyler has negatively impacted his plans and couldn’t prove how and might feel this is more like sibling rivalry.
You’re not wrong, but isn’t Tyler’s class supposed to be first grade? I suspect at that age you don’t get emancipated, you get sent to child services. How much would you bet the Headmaster has his school all hooked up to provide “temporary” housing for super-kids that get put into the foster system?
I think Tyler knows he’s in an abusive relationship with his parents at least as much as 84 knew she wanted to reclaim her number. He just does not know what he can actually do about it.
I also think he is less surprised than Zodon would think.
I don’t think super chaos powers would be that great defensively as I’m under the impression control would be an issue.
Any name with “guard” or of a similar Nature wouldn’t be that accurate to the power set. Offensive ability though has potential.
Nox though when his other name includes shadow is thematically in sync. For potentially continuing this idea further into the plot future that’s more viable than something random. This could be reoccurring even without the chaos goop.
I’m sure there’s some spin in that explanation, but it does feel like the insanity of his family. I’m really thinking Tyler has ALL the brains and heart in the family. Emancipation seems like a really good idea. Maybe he could give family the ultimatum to stop trying to get him powers or he will take it to the courts and set them up publically as negigent and careless parents. They may feel betrayed, but this has gone on far too long. Maybe he can petition that the school/teachers are guardians until he’s of age?
Not to mention the smoking hole this would leave in his “parents” reputation if word got out about they wanted to do to him. Much better to let him go on his own path.
I find it interesting that the family managed to get other heroes outside the family involved. At the very least, Pistonic is somehow involved. And I wouldn’t doubt if there were more.
Did the Powers use their authority to force other heroes to help? Or are they all of like mind, apparently feeling that having no powers is a fate worst than death?
I suspect it’s the latter, considering some of the underlying themes in PS238.
To me at least this has been feeling like a reality akin to the ‘Empowered’ or ‘Velveteen vs.’ worlds. Where many of the heroes are good, but there is a rot going straight to the core of things, and once you scratch the surface you see how pervasive that rot is.
Also, consider the Homeworld of Atlas, and how that worked out: those with powers rule, everyone else bows and scrapes. (Zodonwould love it … if it were his to rule.)
Wow. O_O
When is a villain not a villain?
When is a villain not THE villain?
When are heroes actually villains?
I seriously <3 this comic, but this part of its storyline/universe/characters is getting really dark. O_O
What if the suit and the serum ultimately failed and *killed* Tyler? I honestly wonder if Ultima and Sovereign would even mourn. Or would they only mourn that Tyler was some sort of failure and quickly move on? Or maybe they'd not even speak of him again, simply casting Toby as their one true son?
They are indeed lines from DC stories, both involving the Riddler. 😉
“When is a villain not a villain?” is from “Kingdom Come”, after Riddler hears Lex Luthor’s plans and operation to make the current world crisis worse. (Answer: “When he labors for a greater good, Nigma.”)
I got “When is a villain not THE villain?” from “The Batman” cartoon (youtube.com/watch?v=7fnt-t_wsHQ).
It isn’t that they were going to give him the chaos stuff. I mean as Toby’s brother he is probably a great match for it. It would be contained and would let him be with his family.
It is the containment suit and nanites meant to contain him after that is utterly messed up. The only way this is not an evil plan is if the parents and Toby don’t know the safeguards are expected to fail. And they think the whole thing is to stabilize him and keep him alive.
Just playing Devil’s Advocate here: perhaps their actually having built the suit is more about hope than … resignation.
That is, perhaps they had no intention of allowing anyone, no matter how enthusiastic, use the darned thing until they had countered all the nasty side effects, but they had great hope that such a solution would be rapidly forthcoming.
What I’m saying is: building the suit doesn’t mean they were okay with the down sides, doesn’t mean they were planning to use it, and definitely doesn’t mean they were planning to use it regardless of Tyler’s feelings on the issue.
That might be possible, if we didn’t have all of the other times they’ve done RUTABAGAS to try and get him powers. Like ‘volunteering’ him to be bitten by a werewolf. Or telling the teachers chaperoning a school trip to stick him in any cosmic radiation pools they find. Or all those power-up stuff they were regifting at the party.
Given my reaction to Zodon’s reveal of Project Noxguard, I probably should get one of those t-shirts that says “I am too emotionally attached to fictional characters”.
Don’t forget, this Chaos Stuff only exists because they extracted it from Toby. This “put it into Tyler” plan? IS NOT FOR TYLER. IT IS FOR TOBY. That’s even MORE messed up. They see Toby as their actual son and Tyler as the fake, so they’re using “the clone” as a dumpster for the “real child”.
While I wouldn’t put that past them, in this case, I think they’re actually looking to have “two real children.” Having an order/chaos supertwin set would suit them just fine.
Even the control suit doesn’t seem particularly sinister to me; I read it as a multi-failsafe so the hero with the chaos powers could keep using and controlling them even when they tried to go amuck. Remember, they don’t consider the possibility of failure; they’re absolutely positive their genius plans will work every time. Giving Tyler the chaos powers wouldn’t backfire because they had all the safeties in place. And then both their sons would be whole, non-handicapped superheroes.
What I do wonder is if Tyler could control the chaos powers. As written so far, Toby couldn’t, and they always created a backlash against the order-powers he was using.
Except…was that really what was happening? The deal was that there’d be equal chaos created for order, and vice-versa. I Toby’s powers are reality-warping. The trouble is that he is always increasing order with his powers. If he were acting to increase chaos – engaging in mischief, for example – I think the backlashes would be more “orderly.”
What they’ve done with creating the “chaos ball” isn’t taken half his power and sealed it up; they’ve just made it so the “backlash” always adds more to the ball rather than doing random stuff. The bargain behind Toby’s powers is okay with this because a catastrophic release is inevitable, and it’s willing to bide its time to unleash with interest.
I was looking back and saw Lester say his fortune cookie said he had to see Tyler back home. That didn’t say back to his family of back to the super base. What if that means Lester needs to provide that home for Tyler?
Are Tyler’s parents really that out to lunch? Did they really forget Tyler that time he was in space with Ron? Are they (or is he) under some kind of curse?
I also wonder why they haven’t had other children. Maybe they wanted to show Tyler they had faith in him? Lord, I hope whatever is wrong here is fixable. It makes me sick that, back when Toby came into being, no one reacted to Tyler’s idea that his parents would simply replace him and it makes me even more sick that he seems to have been right.
Yes, the copy fooled most folks but Tyler’s parents A) kept forgetting to assign him a room (like Harry Potter, he was literally living in a closet that Toby set up for him*) and B) could barely remember his name and wanted to run a security check on him as if they doubted his identity. (http://ps238.nodwick.com/comic/04282014/)
A couple of pages later, Tyler asks Toby if anyone he’s related to remembered his name or that he exists this morning. Toby says “I did.” Tyler responds “Anyone who isn’t my clone?” Toby is silent.
*Speaking of which – really, Toby? A closet? You couldn’t have made space in your room?
First off, editing note: “They were going to give that MOCHI it to you” probably shouldn’t have “it” in it.
Secondly, the craving for him to have powers over his safety is nothing new and is depressing, but makes the inability to remember they have a son named “Tyler” weird. Why would they feign not knowing him on one hand and be actively trying to get him powers on the other? There’s no way that doesn’t make them look bad even to their peers.
I begin to think his parents are not just somewhat cruel, but actively evil and insane. This behavior isn’t rational and demonstrates a deep disconnect from both reality AND no understanding of others. How haven’t they snapped and committed horrifying supervillainy in the name of “heroism?”
Maybe they’re insane without being actively evil. It would hardly be the first time that a lot of harm was done by people with good intentions and a questionable grasp of reality.
I’m pretty sure the only one that really cares for Tyler as a person in the Powers family is Toby. And even that is a messed up “If I give him superpowers, Mom and Dad will finally see him as a great person!” way.
Yeah, Toby means well, but he’s kinda fallen for the trap his parents have laid for him and Tyler.
He’s accepted that his parents love is conditional and that Tyler should change to meet those conditions. That’s bad for Tyler, and it’s not exactly good for Toby either. No kid should grow up thinking that mommy and daddy will stop loving him if he messes up. Toby might be the golden child now, but he’s under a lot of pressure to be the perfect superhero son his parents want and I think we’re gonna see that start to ware him down sooner or later.
Hopefully by the time Toby starts to crack he’ll have Tyler’s emotional support to fall back on. I feel like this page is the beginning of Tyler really understanding that the way his parents treat him (and to a lesser degree, Toby) isn’t just eccentric, it’s harmful.
The “love” of The Evil Queen and Last Place is conditional. Toby had tried time and again to get them to give Tyler love and its failed. I think he’s accepted that the condition to get Tyler’s love is to get Tyler their “parents'” love. And I think Toby really wants Tyler’s love, but Tyler has enough insecurities that its really diffacult.
We know why it’s on earth, the Marlockes pulled it out of Toby so he could control his powers better. It’s the chaos part of the order/chaos balance effect left in Toby by the imp and cherub.
That’s how it got separated from Toby, but not how it arrived on Earth in the first place. Toby’s powers come from the invasion of Melphast’s people–which all seemed to be a distraction to leave one Chaotic entity and one Ordered entity on Earth–who gave Toby his powers.
You need to go back and reread things, because that’s not how it happened. The clone’s DNA had ‘junk’ in it which resulted in the clone having reality-warping powers. Unfortunately a Chaos imp and Order Cherub noticed the clone, cut the connection between it and Tyler and started screwing with his powers until they finally installed controls that would force his powers to create an equally chaotic event to counter any orderly event he did and vice versa in order to render him useless in the battle between Order and Chaos. They had nothing to do with his powers only with screwing them up.
I honestly think at some point Zodon’s going to go good. It’ll be a snarky sort of good, and partially predicated on showing people how dumb they are, but it’ll be good. Especially if Von Fogg makes a bit splash when he finally graduates to full-bore supervillain.
My read is that Zodon and the von Foggs are both “pragmatic villains”. Their goals are selfish, and they don’t particularly care about anyone else’s well-being, but they both realize that there has to _be_ a world in order to rule it, and they realize that until they _are_ ruling it they have to at least pretend to play by the rules.
So, Zodon builds his space platform and hatches schemes, but restricts himself to petty theft at school and does his level best to make sure existential threats like the chaos ball are contained. The von Fogg kids build “ascend to godhood” machines but point them at uninhabited universes and know better than to take an alien gauntlet all the way apart.
They may even be cluing into the fact that even if you don’t like someone it may be useful to maintain a working relationship with them. Zodon doesn’t _enjoy_ hanging out with our heroes, but they’re known quantities and can occasionally be pointed in productive directions.
o_o … This is amazing.
Every single time Tyler’s parents crop up in the storyline, they find ways to generate more of my hatred.
The Emperor could have used them to turn people to the Dark Side if he ever fancied a holiday.
I think an interesting thing is going to be how Ron reacts to this; he’s standing right there.
For Ron, having powers is an issue he’s been struggling with too – and it was a factor in his parent’s divorce. To see Tyler’s parents might be prepared to put him at risk because they are oblivious to who he actually is – and he’s an incredible person – might have Ron realizing that as bad as his life has been, Tyler’s current situation is worse. You know you’re in trouble when Zodon takes pity on you. The only ones who gets this are Toby and the Revenant – and Toby doesn’t have the full story either.
And I can’t help but note Tyler’s still holding onto that mystery power potion. Will he decide using it couldn’t possibly make things worse? It would be a tempting plot turn, if a bit of a cliche, but one of the things that makes Tyler what he is, is the way he resists doing the obvious thing. It would be nice if the Revenant could give him his full attention to help him work through this.
That next group therapy session is going to be one for the books.
My guess is either all the little things will start to click into place or he’ll think Zodon must be lying Tyler will explain no this is just like them I just thought they were done with all that now that they have Toby.
I’m just glad the combined efforts of Zodon, Power, Glory, Lester, Sarah, Moonshadow, The Flee, Ron, and Cecil managed to thwart the Evil Queen’s and Last Place’s evil plan.
Dang. Tyler’s parents really do care more about him having superpowers than his well being. This is rough.
Maybe they think it will work out because of how the two sets of powers (order and chaos) are supposed to balance. I can see someone imagining the “twins” ending up with a ying-yang dynamic. Also, this plan seems like a work in progress, not finalized details. That said…it’s still a terrible idea.
So the surface read is that Zodon wants the chaos stuff. But I’m wondering if he honestly thinks he’s the only one that can keep it safe (probably), and if there’s not also an ulterior motive of keeping Tyler safe. As much as he likes to tweak him, I can’t help but think he would be upset if something happened to the guy.
I think he is concerned that if Tyler gets powers, he won’t be able to bully him anymore. And if he gets /chaos/ powers, Tyler might turn around and seek revenge.
I’m not as sure bullying him is that much of a goal. He likes snarking his annoyance of idiots and while Tyler is annoying, he isn’t a threat. I think he’s slotting Tyler into a Watson/audience/pet/fond minion role. The weems language is not aimed at Tyler and his venom is aimed at those who should be better like parents and pistonic.
Z seems to be showing more to be a very, VERY bruised idealist who is continually pissed of at just how BAD people and supposed heroes are. Other than those who directly get in his way, his most cutting words are for the false heroes…
I suspect he may have figured out Tyler/Moonshadow and he does respect him for staying more heroic/not self-serving than the pros. Ty might block power plots, but he can also work to protect Zpdon’s future subjects from the idiots and asses. Not as bright but capable and trustworthy, and reliable agents are worth their weight in gold…
I seem to recall Zodon has made critical remarks of the Revenant also, but not as frequently as he does about Tyler’s parents or the teachers. Admittedly, he’s around Tyler’s parents and the teachers more.
It feels to me like anyone sane would want the chaos goop contained, and Zodon’s possibly the closest we have to a sane character in this. That’s by no means an attempt to say that Zodon is sane, so it is certainly possible he also has an ulterior motive for being its holder.
I absolutely agree with him being a very bruised idealist. That said, I’m having a difficult time identifying a false hero who has interacted with Zodon and hasn’t gotten in Zodon’s way. I mean, they tend to work together, and thwarting Zodon because he’s `clearly evil` seems like it’s pretty high on their priority lists.
Zodon is VERY MUCH the Villain who’s a villain because they’re trying to do good, and everybody else taken as a collective are BLATHERING LACKWITS who’re ignorant at best and downright malicious at worst. In other words, the BEST KIND of villain.
He’d be downright insufferable if there were more than three non-ignorant and non-malicious characters.
I think Zodon does not understand his feelings towards Tyler, because they are a mix of pity, envy, annoyance, kinship, protectiveness, fondness etc. and super intellect stacked on natural intellect does not equal wisdom and he’s a child.
Zodon knows that Tyler’s “parents” are at least as bad as his own in regards to why can’t you be different. Because of the fact that alternate Zodon’s “parents” stole from him and abandoned him I don’t know its entirely Zodon’s fault either. Zodon was able to dump his parents Tyler was not.
Zodon also has to deal with the fact that even the space that’s supposed to be there to build him up is choosing a normal child over him. All the teachers love and pity Tyler. Tyler is proberly the second most popular kid in school after Moonshadow and Zodon is still being treated like a pest. And he’s telling himself that he does not want the teachers pity anyways.
My guess is Zodon both wants to protect Tyler and to hit him over the head with reality. And I think he does and he doesn’t want Tyler to become as jaded as he is.
I also think Zodon does think he’s the most capable of keeping everyone including himself safe from the buildup.
I think Zodon is not ready to admit to being a good person or a truely evil person so if he does something evil he has good reason and if he does something good he has a selfish reason.
I think he likes and respects Tyler just a little, a lot more than the powered people around who keep leaving him in the danger zone, he might see Tyler like the annoying pest of a little brother: a pest and sometimes cutely affective. He likes the non powered kid more than almost all the other kids, recognizing they are both outsiders. I jusr wonder if and when he figures out he’s also Moonshadow as he uses reason more and there are enough clues even if too many are blind. Zodon might be smart enough to figure it out.
It would do him good to understand there’s more to all this than powers. The boy needs a real friend, not just a needy AI. He hasn’t realized the evergreen challenge of taking down baddies (enlightened self interest) and giggles.
I doubt Zodon in any way cares for Tyler. I don’t think he sees Tyler as a threat; at most he sees him as a nuisance- meaning in the villainous scheme of things he’s just an object of annoyance (like a jinx, because he keeps appearing when Zodon’s plots go awry) or ridicule (“normal boy”), but not someone you go out of way to harm or humiliate.
And yet that’s miles above how Tyler’s parents treat him.
I think there’s an implication that one of the reasons Zodon picks on Tyler is he’s projecting his own problems with his parents on to Tyler. Zodon’s parents wished Zodon wasn’t a metahuman and Tyler’s parents wished the opposite. I kinda see what he’s doing here, and his bullying in general, as a ‘nah nah, see, your parents don’t love you the way you are either.’
Zodon’s expressed cynical concern for Tyler almost from the beginning, feeling that ‘Normal Boy’ shouldn’t be around them and the dangerous situations inherent in being around supers. The idea of him seeing Tyler as a mirror of him isn’t unrealistic to see, one with parents that wished their child was normal the other with parents willing to risk destroying their own child’s body and mind to make him NOT normal. While he tries to make it seem like he’s in it for himself I’d say Zodon actually is doing it for Tyler’s sake to save him from his parents and the rest of their idiot companions. He just tries to paint it as selfish reasons because he doesn’t want people to think he’s going ‘soft.’
That’s a pretty good interpretation, that Zodon’s trying to let Tyler know that his parents really don’t have his best interests at heart. This is the kid that put his parents all the way in another dimension, after all.
Yeah, but as much as his parents hurt him, he knows it’s not malicious or physically harmful like Tyler’s parents. After all, he not only didn’t harm them, but sent them to a place where they would be safe and happier. He may be bitter, but he didn’t hurt them.
Tyler’s parents are not as kind or responsible as Zodon– think about that. I suspect he thinks of himself as an evil genius, but his actions are far more neutral and sometimes heroic. He far better than he gives himself credit for. At some point someone will point that out to him.
If he didn’t then he wouldn’t be telling him and wasting time. He also isn’t trying to hurt his feelings with it.
Weirdly it seems emotional and physical bruises are fair game but does care for Tyler.
He has felt Tyler has negatively impacted his plans and couldn’t prove how and might feel this is more like sibling rivalry.
Tyler !, Tyler ! You listening, get a lawyer and get Emancipated ASAP you in an abusive relationship
You’re not wrong, but isn’t Tyler’s class supposed to be first grade? I suspect at that age you don’t get emancipated, you get sent to child services. How much would you bet the Headmaster has his school all hooked up to provide “temporary” housing for super-kids that get put into the foster system?
I think Tyler knows he’s in an abusive relationship with his parents at least as much as 84 knew she wanted to reclaim her number. He just does not know what he can actually do about it.
I also think he is less surprised than Zodon would think.
This is really messed up.
“Project Noxguard” …. interesting name, that.
it even sounds evil
Well, they couldn’t use “Nightguard”, that’s a dental appliance.
“School of Hard Nox?”
I don’t think super chaos powers would be that great defensively as I’m under the impression control would be an issue.
Any name with “guard” or of a similar Nature wouldn’t be that accurate to the power set. Offensive ability though has potential.
Nox though when his other name includes shadow is thematically in sync. For potentially continuing this idea further into the plot future that’s more viable than something random. This could be reoccurring even without the chaos goop.
I’m sure there’s some spin in that explanation, but it does feel like the insanity of his family. I’m really thinking Tyler has ALL the brains and heart in the family. Emancipation seems like a really good idea. Maybe he could give family the ultimatum to stop trying to get him powers or he will take it to the courts and set them up publically as negigent and careless parents. They may feel betrayed, but this has gone on far too long. Maybe he can petition that the school/teachers are guardians until he’s of age?
Not to mention the smoking hole this would leave in his “parents” reputation if word got out about they wanted to do to him. Much better to let him go on his own path.
I find it interesting that the family managed to get other heroes outside the family involved. At the very least, Pistonic is somehow involved. And I wouldn’t doubt if there were more.
Did the Powers use their authority to force other heroes to help? Or are they all of like mind, apparently feeling that having no powers is a fate worst than death?
I suspect it’s the latter, considering some of the underlying themes in PS238.
To me at least this has been feeling like a reality akin to the ‘Empowered’ or ‘Velveteen vs.’ worlds. Where many of the heroes are good, but there is a rot going straight to the core of things, and once you scratch the surface you see how pervasive that rot is.
Also, consider the Homeworld of Atlas, and how that worked out: those with powers rule, everyone else bows and scrapes. (Zodonwould love it … if it were his to rule.)
Wow. O_O
When is a villain not a villain?
When is a villain not THE villain?
When are heroes actually villains?
I seriously <3 this comic, but this part of its storyline/universe/characters is getting really dark. O_O
What if the suit and the serum ultimately failed and *killed* Tyler? I honestly wonder if Ultima and Sovereign would even mourn. Or would they only mourn that Tyler was some sort of failure and quickly move on? Or maybe they'd not even speak of him again, simply casting Toby as their one true son?
That sounds like it could be a DC story line in “Detective Comics.” With the Riddler taunting Batman that, this time, HE’S not the villain!
They are indeed lines from DC stories, both involving the Riddler. 😉
“When is a villain not a villain?” is from “Kingdom Come”, after Riddler hears Lex Luthor’s plans and operation to make the current world crisis worse. (Answer: “When he labors for a greater good, Nigma.”)
I got “When is a villain not THE villain?” from “The Batman” cartoon (youtube.com/watch?v=7fnt-t_wsHQ).
And Tyler’s next thought may well be, “I need my other suit.”
I doubt it would happen but would love to see him introducing himself as that to his parents dressed as Moonshadow.
Wait, he’s still surprised by this?
It isn’t that they were going to give him the chaos stuff. I mean as Toby’s brother he is probably a great match for it. It would be contained and would let him be with his family.
It is the containment suit and nanites meant to contain him after that is utterly messed up. The only way this is not an evil plan is if the parents and Toby don’t know the safeguards are expected to fail. And they think the whole thing is to stabilize him and keep him alive.
Just playing Devil’s Advocate here: perhaps their actually having built the suit is more about hope than … resignation.
That is, perhaps they had no intention of allowing anyone, no matter how enthusiastic, use the darned thing until they had countered all the nasty side effects, but they had great hope that such a solution would be rapidly forthcoming.
What I’m saying is: building the suit doesn’t mean they were okay with the down sides, doesn’t mean they were planning to use it, and definitely doesn’t mean they were planning to use it regardless of Tyler’s feelings on the issue.
That might be possible, if we didn’t have all of the other times they’ve done RUTABAGAS to try and get him powers. Like ‘volunteering’ him to be bitten by a werewolf. Or telling the teachers chaperoning a school trip to stick him in any cosmic radiation pools they find. Or all those power-up stuff they were regifting at the party.
The thing is, based on your own reasoning, why build the suit in the first place? They may as well just keep it contained and locked away.
Given my reaction to Zodon’s reveal of Project Noxguard, I probably should get one of those t-shirts that says “I am too emotionally attached to fictional characters”.
Don’t forget, this Chaos Stuff only exists because they extracted it from Toby. This “put it into Tyler” plan? IS NOT FOR TYLER. IT IS FOR TOBY. That’s even MORE messed up. They see Toby as their actual son and Tyler as the fake, so they’re using “the clone” as a dumpster for the “real child”.
While I wouldn’t put that past them, in this case, I think they’re actually looking to have “two real children.” Having an order/chaos supertwin set would suit them just fine.
Even the control suit doesn’t seem particularly sinister to me; I read it as a multi-failsafe so the hero with the chaos powers could keep using and controlling them even when they tried to go amuck. Remember, they don’t consider the possibility of failure; they’re absolutely positive their genius plans will work every time. Giving Tyler the chaos powers wouldn’t backfire because they had all the safeties in place. And then both their sons would be whole, non-handicapped superheroes.
What I do wonder is if Tyler could control the chaos powers. As written so far, Toby couldn’t, and they always created a backlash against the order-powers he was using.
Except…was that really what was happening? The deal was that there’d be equal chaos created for order, and vice-versa. I Toby’s powers are reality-warping. The trouble is that he is always increasing order with his powers. If he were acting to increase chaos – engaging in mischief, for example – I think the backlashes would be more “orderly.”
What they’ve done with creating the “chaos ball” isn’t taken half his power and sealed it up; they’ve just made it so the “backlash” always adds more to the ball rather than doing random stuff. The bargain behind Toby’s powers is okay with this because a catastrophic release is inevitable, and it’s willing to bide its time to unleash with interest.
I was looking back and saw Lester say his fortune cookie said he had to see Tyler back home. That didn’t say back to his family of back to the super base. What if that means Lester needs to provide that home for Tyler?
Note: Potion still undrunk.
Are Tyler’s parents really that out to lunch? Did they really forget Tyler that time he was in space with Ron? Are they (or is he) under some kind of curse?
I also wonder why they haven’t had other children. Maybe they wanted to show Tyler they had faith in him? Lord, I hope whatever is wrong here is fixable. It makes me sick that, back when Toby came into being, no one reacted to Tyler’s idea that his parents would simply replace him and it makes me even more sick that he seems to have been right.
Toby made a copy of tyler to stand in for him at home and school. Fooled most folks, but did rack up a decent amount of detention IIRC
Yes, the copy fooled most folks but Tyler’s parents A) kept forgetting to assign him a room (like Harry Potter, he was literally living in a closet that Toby set up for him*) and B) could barely remember his name and wanted to run a security check on him as if they doubted his identity. (http://ps238.nodwick.com/comic/04282014/)
A couple of pages later, Tyler asks Toby if anyone he’s related to remembered his name or that he exists this morning. Toby says “I did.” Tyler responds “Anyone who isn’t my clone?” Toby is silent.
*Speaking of which – really, Toby? A closet? You couldn’t have made space in your room?
First off, editing note: “They were going to give that MOCHI it to you” probably shouldn’t have “it” in it.
Secondly, the craving for him to have powers over his safety is nothing new and is depressing, but makes the inability to remember they have a son named “Tyler” weird. Why would they feign not knowing him on one hand and be actively trying to get him powers on the other? There’s no way that doesn’t make them look bad even to their peers.
I begin to think his parents are not just somewhat cruel, but actively evil and insane. This behavior isn’t rational and demonstrates a deep disconnect from both reality AND no understanding of others. How haven’t they snapped and committed horrifying supervillainy in the name of “heroism?”
A good PR department who can bury or spin just about anything to make it seem heroic if you weren’t there.
Maybe they’re insane without being actively evil. It would hardly be the first time that a lot of harm was done by people with good intentions and a questionable grasp of reality.
Tyler’s parents continue to be the actual worst
I’m pretty sure the only one that really cares for Tyler as a person in the Powers family is Toby. And even that is a messed up “If I give him superpowers, Mom and Dad will finally see him as a great person!” way.
Yeah, Toby means well, but he’s kinda fallen for the trap his parents have laid for him and Tyler.
He’s accepted that his parents love is conditional and that Tyler should change to meet those conditions. That’s bad for Tyler, and it’s not exactly good for Toby either. No kid should grow up thinking that mommy and daddy will stop loving him if he messes up. Toby might be the golden child now, but he’s under a lot of pressure to be the perfect superhero son his parents want and I think we’re gonna see that start to ware him down sooner or later.
Hopefully by the time Toby starts to crack he’ll have Tyler’s emotional support to fall back on. I feel like this page is the beginning of Tyler really understanding that the way his parents treat him (and to a lesser degree, Toby) isn’t just eccentric, it’s harmful.
The “love” of The Evil Queen and Last Place is conditional. Toby had tried time and again to get them to give Tyler love and its failed. I think he’s accepted that the condition to get Tyler’s love is to get Tyler their “parents'” love. And I think Toby really wants Tyler’s love, but Tyler has enough insecurities that its really diffacult.
Considering exactly where all this Chaos stuff comes from, shouldn’t someone ask Malphast about it? If he can’t do something, maybe his parents can.
I’m pretty sure his Malphast’s mom is involved it it being on earth.
We know why it’s on earth, the Marlockes pulled it out of Toby so he could control his powers better. It’s the chaos part of the order/chaos balance effect left in Toby by the imp and cherub.
It’s pretty likely that Malaphast’s parents are involved with Toby’s powers working the way they do.
That’s how it got separated from Toby, but not how it arrived on Earth in the first place. Toby’s powers come from the invasion of Melphast’s people–which all seemed to be a distraction to leave one Chaotic entity and one Ordered entity on Earth–who gave Toby his powers.
You need to go back and reread things, because that’s not how it happened. The clone’s DNA had ‘junk’ in it which resulted in the clone having reality-warping powers. Unfortunately a Chaos imp and Order Cherub noticed the clone, cut the connection between it and Tyler and started screwing with his powers until they finally installed controls that would force his powers to create an equally chaotic event to counter any orderly event he did and vice versa in order to render him useless in the battle between Order and Chaos. They had nothing to do with his powers only with screwing them up.
That’s my interpretation as well. Nightmask
Well that is a wonderful level of messed up. Honestly Zodon is being helpful while maintaining working on his own goals, in a tough love kind of way.
I honestly think at some point Zodon’s going to go good. It’ll be a snarky sort of good, and partially predicated on showing people how dumb they are, but it’ll be good. Especially if Von Fogg makes a bit splash when he finally graduates to full-bore supervillain.
My read is that Zodon and the von Foggs are both “pragmatic villains”. Their goals are selfish, and they don’t particularly care about anyone else’s well-being, but they both realize that there has to _be_ a world in order to rule it, and they realize that until they _are_ ruling it they have to at least pretend to play by the rules.
So, Zodon builds his space platform and hatches schemes, but restricts himself to petty theft at school and does his level best to make sure existential threats like the chaos ball are contained. The von Fogg kids build “ascend to godhood” machines but point them at uninhabited universes and know better than to take an alien gauntlet all the way apart.
They may even be cluing into the fact that even if you don’t like someone it may be useful to maintain a working relationship with them. Zodon doesn’t _enjoy_ hanging out with our heroes, but they’re known quantities and can occasionally be pointed in productive directions.
o_o … This is amazing.
Every single time Tyler’s parents crop up in the storyline, they find ways to generate more of my hatred.
The Emperor could have used them to turn people to the Dark Side if he ever fancied a holiday.
I think an interesting thing is going to be how Ron reacts to this; he’s standing right there.
For Ron, having powers is an issue he’s been struggling with too – and it was a factor in his parent’s divorce. To see Tyler’s parents might be prepared to put him at risk because they are oblivious to who he actually is – and he’s an incredible person – might have Ron realizing that as bad as his life has been, Tyler’s current situation is worse. You know you’re in trouble when Zodon takes pity on you. The only ones who gets this are Toby and the Revenant – and Toby doesn’t have the full story either.
And I can’t help but note Tyler’s still holding onto that mystery power potion. Will he decide using it couldn’t possibly make things worse? It would be a tempting plot turn, if a bit of a cliche, but one of the things that makes Tyler what he is, is the way he resists doing the obvious thing. It would be nice if the Revenant could give him his full attention to help him work through this.
That next group therapy session is going to be one for the books.
It could be karmic if he gives it to one of the shopkeepers…
My guess is either all the little things will start to click into place or he’ll think Zodon must be lying Tyler will explain no this is just like them I just thought they were done with all that now that they have Toby.
Tylers parents SUUUUUUUCK!
In a more cynical work, this would by Tyler’s Supervillain origin story.
Tyler is constantly on the edge becoming a super villain. http://ps238.nodwick.com/comic/2016-02-12/
I’m just glad the combined efforts of Zodon, Power, Glory, Lester, Sarah, Moonshadow, The Flee, Ron, and Cecil managed to thwart the Evil Queen’s and Last Place’s evil plan.