Except Toby remembers that when he still WAS Tyler – so to speak -, Tyler DID want his parents’ approval (even knowing how impossible that was for the obvious lack-of-power-shaped problem). It’s also quite obvious that all that seperates Tyler from said approval is aforementioned lack-of-power-shaped problem.
Toby’s only mistake is not realizing that he is working of an outdated view of what Tyler wants. In his eyes, he IS doing what will get his brother what he wants…
Tyler never wanted people working to get him powers behind his back. It never ends well and he knew that going into school. Tobies view is not just outdated its incomplete and clouded by how his own life progressed from there.
Doubt and stupidity can lead to many things. Tony wants WORKING powers that don’t com the earth. He knows his parents care for him because he has powers. So by that logic working powers that don’t room the earth would be perfect for his brother… The brother who has moonshadow lessons and has learned that one can be super without super powers.
I completely agree. Even if Toby means well, even if Tyler knows that, it’s going to strain their relationship.
Toby lost the best friend he could have had but we know it was to save the world from Order/Chaos domination/open war. That’s something Tyler could understand.
But, here, even if Toby was successful in giving Tyler powers, the loss could be his brother’s love.
When Toby used his powers to undo Principal Cranston’s curse (the one that made other’s hear his thoughts) the two had to give something up to pay for it, Cranston lost his “redemption” while Toby lost the best friend he could have had, Cecil.
Er, we donât know who that best friend would have been. Both Cecil & Tyler are in that shot, remember? Cecil isnât exactly disposed to like meta-humans in the first place; he only accepted Malphast and Ron because Tyler spoke up for them, and Flea because…well…itâs Flea.
It took some time for Cranstonâs âno redemptionâ payback to pop up (& I think he gave up too easy; blaming a young boyâs powers because Cranston didnât have the guts to out the Headmaster & take the consequences is a cop-out). It could have also taken time for âgiving up your best friendâ to also come about. The ârewardâ for that was Cranston helping both Toby and Tyler stay with the Powers…and the direct result of THAT has been Tyler getting pushed aside, ignored, and forgotten because of Toby.
Itâs much more likelier that Tyler & Toby couldâve been best friends and allies, but now? With Toby doing the one thing Tyler said NO to, and ignoring Tylerâs wishes in the matter? Friendship sunk, and Tobyâs actions throughout the series since he was âbornâ have pretty much sunk ANY hope of friendship with Tyler.
“Both Cecil & Tyler are in that shot, remember? Cecil isnât exactly disposed to like meta-humans in the first place; he only accepted Malphast and Ron because Tyler spoke up for them, and Flea becauseâŚwellâŚitâs Flea.”
The difference is that Toby remained on friendly, good, understanding terms with Tyler even after Toby’s intervention with Cranston’s case and his asking for help in keeping their family together. Toby and Tyler ARE (or, until now, WERE) friends.
And in citing Malphast, Ron, and the Flea, you pointed out that Cecil’s distrust for metahumans could be overcome. The ending of the “Malphast and the Mysterious ‘Meh'” showed Cecil shutting that door completely.
“It took some time for Cranstonâs âno redemptionâ payback to pop up (& I think he gave up too easy; blaming a young boyâs powers because Cranston didnât have the guts to out the Headmaster & take the consequences is a cop-out). It could have also taken time for âgiving up your best friendâ to also come about. The ârewardâ for that was Cranston helping both Toby and Tyler stay with the PowersâŚand the direct result of THAT has been Tyler getting pushed aside, ignored, and forgotten because of Toby.”
Cranston didn’t blame Toby, nor was it a cop-out, nor did it “take some time”.
Do you actually think people will simply accept the explanation of man who used his secret mental powers not just to have an amazing political career but became PotUS? Given his accomplishments with said super power and abilities in political subterfuge, why should they believe and trust his telling them that
a) the preventive and punitive measure against his misuse of powers (the inhibitor) was removed by *accident and emergency* (rather than by his own machinations), and
b) the preventive and punitive measure against the unauthorized removal of said inhibitor (a magic curse) had proper justification to be removed (they won’t- they’ll see the telepathic broadcasting instead as just punishment and the undoing of the curse to be an escape of justice)?
Remember that Dr. Newby- who’s a pretty nice person and sworn to help all by nature of her profession- was quite shocked and displeased by the discovery of the truth behind Cranston.
The truth is that Cranston gave up redemption the moment he received Toby’s help. This isn’t even the result of some sort of magical or super-powered or whatnot effect; this is the completely natural consequence of a legal and political agreement, even if you and I think it was for a good reason. If you or I or anyone else in Cranston’s shoes were to do something similar- even if in much less metahuman circumstances- a lot of people would not think of us as justified or trustworthy.
In regards to the Headmaster specifically, the Headmaster has the advantage. He has a clone out there of himself as Senator Durvin. He’s going to be trusted more than Cranston specifically where his political career involved safeguarding people from the abuse of metahuman powers even by superheroes. Cranston’s removal of inhibitor and escape of its curse is going to be seen as an abuse of such; it’s ammunition for the Headmaster, not for Cranston, to be used on the other.
It wasn’t a cop out. It wasn’t giving up. It was knowing that he had no chance of winning that fight.
As for Tyler, if you think how his life has been was bad since Toby became recognized as his twin, how do you know his life would have been better had Toby not made that deal with Cranston? For example, what could have happened instead is the Marlockes/Powers instead recognizing Toby as their son and Tyler as a clone. Remember that Tyler’s folks are already horrible to begin with.
“Itâs much more likelier that Tyler & Toby couldâve been best friends and allies, but now? With Toby doing the one thing Tyler said NO to, and ignoring Tylerâs wishes in the matter? Friendship sunk, and Tobyâs actions throughout the series since he was âbornâ have pretty much sunk ANY hope of friendship with Tyler.”
The thing is that they already were. Now, we don’t know how Tyler and Toby will be to each other.
@Chris PV
Correction:
“this is the completely natural consequence of a legal and political agreement”
should be
“this is the completely natural consequence of breaking a legal and political agreement”
About the former president, it really looks like he used his mental powers to gather information to be able to refute lies about himself quickly and effectively. It was an invasion of privacy and gave him an advantage that other candidates did not have but the people actually voted for him and it seems like the only thing he actually lied about was about having them. But on to the headband. If the headband was a legal thing it would inform the proper authorities or knock him out if it was taken off not curse him.
On the subject of adoption. It could have made it slightly easier to forget that Tyler exists and slightly changed the brand of terrible they are to Tyler. What it clearly does though is gives the Evil Queen and Last Place authority over Toby’s life. Where do you think Toby would live if the adoption papers were not filed.
“About the former president, it really looks like he used his mental powers to gather information to be able to refute lies about himself quickly and effectively. It was an invasion of privacy and gave him an advantage that other candidates did not have but the people actually voted for him and it seems like the only thing he actually lied about was about having them.”
People voted for him NOT KNOWING he was a meta with mental powers WHO USED said powers to further his political career. Examples of such people would be Dr. Newby and her dad. And having found out about it, she was unhappy to the point of implying she and her dad (and everyone else who honestly voted for Cranston as President) would not have done it had they known. (11222010, 12202010)
Furthermore, it’s implied Cranston didn’t just use his psychic powers to refute lies about himself. He used it to counter any and every political strategy being used against him or that he fought against. (11262010) Even if you consider it just an “invasion or privacy” and “unfair advantage”, that’s BIG AND BAD ENOUGH ethically, legally, and socially in lower position politics, much less being PotUS.
“But on to the headband. If the headband was a legal thing it would inform the proper authorities or knock him out if it was taken off not curse him.”
It DID try to (MORE THAN) knock him out when it was taken off (12172010). And Vashti’s curse was indeed part of the legal arrangements (12292010 & 07292011).
Who knows why it didn’t inform other people (assuming the Headmaster found it via the Proctor’s link with the Positrons)? Maybe Newby’s attempt to jam it did that. It doesn’t matter at this point- it’s bad enough info that the Headmaster can use it to destroy Cranston.
“On the subject of adoption. It could have made it slightly easier to forget that Tyler exists and slightly changed the brand of terrible they are to Tyler. What it clearly does though is gives the Evil Queen and Last Place authority over Tobyâs life. Where do you think Toby would live if the adoption papers were not filed.”
I’m confused by what you mean here. Assuming you mean that without Cranston helping Toby get an adoption, the Marlockes/Powers would have simply replaced Tyler with Toby (completely forgetting/ignoring/neglecting Tyler) then I agree with you. If somehow the legal recognition of Toby as twin of Tyler means they haven’t completely thrown Tyler out of their lives or sent him away to an orphanage, yeah, why not?
Without Craingston helping Toby get an adoption the Evil Queen and Last Place would have had to work for it. I believe that months of filing paperwork so they could be Toby’s parents would make it slightly harder to forget that Toby was in fact a clone which could have slightly changed the brand of terrible they were to Tyler.
Making it easy for the Evil Queen and Last Place to adopt a child when they are clearly unfit parents was most likely a bad idea. It means all Toby can do is argue with his parents decisions and can’t actually go to anyone about wanting to live in the dorms or wanting to spend time with his friends or not wanting to be pulled out of school for a week to do missions with his “parents”.
“Without Craingston helping Toby get an adoption the Evil Queen and Last Place would have had to work for it.”
This assumes there would have still been an intention on their part to adopt Toby WHILE KEEPING Tyler.
It’s quite possible for them to rationalize that Tyler was the clone and Toby was the original, with the latter somehow gaining powers.* And, as a “clone” without legally recognized rights (it took Cranston and Riley to come up with something and only AFTER Toby had cut a deal with Cranston), they could have dumped Tyler.
Besides, if they would have adopted Toby anyway and kept Tyler without Cranston’s legal aid, why would Toby go through all the trouble of cutting a deal with Cranston at the expense of him losing his (possible) best friend Cecil? He could have just cured Cranston of his curse; by not asking for legal help, such an act would not help Toby and thus it wouldn’t need to be balanced out, so he’d end up friends with Cecil instead of the door being closed. And Toby has some quantum precognition to sense the outcomes of his actions, so he’d have seen that.
On that last point, I’m guessing Toby may have foreseen that the deal with Cranston was necessary to keep his family together.
* In fact, go back to how things went: remote body Tyler- whom the Powers think is their actual kid- goes to the Fusion Family barbecue and displays powers. He falls unconscious with his parents at his side since. He wakes up and gains a costume and beats his first “super villain”. Toby realizes things have gone awry and goes off to consult Tyler then eventually makes a deal with Cranston. The Powers, Toby, and Tyler meet with Cranston, Riley, and Wooster. Toby is in his Kid Powers costume, the one they’d given him. To them, it would have seemed that the costumed “Tyler”- who had been with them all that time- was the REAL Tyler, not this other kid in different clothes. I doubt they’d accept any protestation from Toby that he was a different kid, and not the original Tyler.
Furthermore, note that Cranston specifically referred to Tyler and Toby as “TWINS” and refused to DIVULGE the origin of Toby.** I now wonder if he really did it to spare the Power parents from distress or to protect Tyler.
But, whatever the case, I’m sure Toby approaching Cranston and Cranston’s deft handling of the situation ensured that Tyler’s fears did not come to pass, with both Tyler and Toby being “recognized” (emphasis on quotation marks) as children of the Marlockes (even if Sovereign and Ultima suck at being parents to Tyler).
** Do the Powers even know that Toby is not actually Tyler’s twin but his clone? Seriously. This is NOT a rhetorical question. Do they know?
“Making it easy for the Evil Queen and Last Place to adopt a child when they are clearly unfit parents was most likely a bad idea. It means all Toby can do is argue with his parents decisions and canât actually go to anyone about wanting to live in the dorms or wanting to spend time with his friends or not wanting to be pulled out of school for a week to do missions with his ‘parents’.”
Except that we’re not seeing any of that. In fact, Sovereign and Ultima seem to be so happy about Toby to the point of super parental laxity.
On Toby’s side, he seems to be more focused on using his powers to “fix” Tyler’s situation, coming up with schemes and plans and whatnot. He doesn’t seem to be arguing or fighting them, either.
And, besides, with Toby’s powers, his parents can’t really do much to stop him from going out on his own (flight, teleport, etc.). This also doesn’t matter because- following my first statement- they’re not trying to stop or hinder him anyway from doing anything.
In fact, this party isn’t something they questioned, they even blew it up to ridiculous proportions, nevermind that Tyler lost access to high security areas.
It sounds very much like Toby is Power & Glory’s other client — but not for himself, but for Tyler. I imagine Toby has made a deal with P&G, and “all” they want in return for giving Tyler powers would be… oh, I dunno, a chaos-orb?
Gods, if this was ârealâ, Iâd be doing my damnedest to get Tyler out of there, make the Powers sign the papers to sever all parental rights, and adopt Tyler myself. Right now, Tyler should get out if there, call Rev for a pickup, and engineer Tylerâs fake death.
The parents have made me enraged throughout this strip, at the level of emotional abuse theyâve pulled, but at least Tyler has support from Rev & his real friends for dealing with that. Tobyâs actions, though, are truly, deeply, PISSING ME OFF. Whether or not he âknowsâ what Tyler wants, he forgot one very important step: ASKING TYLERâS PERMISSION. Tylerâs body, Tylerâs life, Tylerâs freakinâ rules, kiddo. Toby has just jumped right over the edge into Villain status.
Sometimes the best of intentions can lead one into villainy and Toby is certainly on that path, he just hasn’t learned anything from what he remembers of Tyler’s parents trying to force powers onto him as well as what happened when he tried it. He should understand by now that the cosmic balance requires Tyler remain as he is appearing in all ways as a completely normal non-powered human (which would explain why when he powered up Tyler the entire planet’s population went super and it nearly destroyed the planet, Tyler’s required to represent non-powered humanity so paradoxically has the power to resist being powered at a minimum).
The whole cosmic balance thing is too much for any kid to grasp and fully understand the ramifications of. Itâs the simpler, basic âTYLER SAID NOâ thatâs the final word on the matter.
Remember the alternate time-lines Tyler saw in the mirrors? Remember that one of Tobyâs costume choices was what the Evil-Tyler wore in one of those timelines? Remember that the Parents chose âAbsolute Powersâ for the kidâs superhero name, and itâs obvious they never read Machiavelli. Absolute power has corrupted this kid, and heâs not on the path â heâs wallowing in the mud of it. Heâs even working with someone of unknown motives, whoâs already threatened and stalked Tyler.
No, what little sympathy I had for Toby is now long gone.
Friendly reminder that, not only is Toby literally a /child/, but he is not actually the age he appears to be at that. Yes, he was made from Tyler, and he has some of Tyler’s memories, but he is /not/ Tyler, is not actually ~ten-to-twelve years old (sidenote: does anyone have a timeline on this strip? Or is it kinda like ‘Batman’s been around for eighty-plus years but he’s not that old?). He, Toby, has not had the socialization necessary (as /Toby/) to have the sorts of realizations that we, as adults, think he should have had based on his appearance. Especially since his primary socialization, outside of superhero school, has been provided by emotionally abusive adults who believe that powers are a necessity to self-fulfillment.
You have a point about the costume choice being possible foreshadowing, but honestly, acting like a /child/ has been entirely corrupted by power and deciding to write him off is disturbing. And a lot of comments on this particular strip are doing this, which I find personally upsetting in a comic that, time and time again, has shown children being manipulated by adults and systems of authority and always, /always/ rightfully places the responsibility on the authority figures in their lives. Because they are /children/.
There really aren’t any contextual clues about timing in the comic. We know the post-Septos barbecue was before Christmas, as Suzie was looking forward to the holidays. But that would be true of every Christmas. There was a trick-or-treating bonus story in one of the trades. Otherwise, nothing’s been mentioned. Not even summer vacation, which is such an obvious plot hook I can’t believe Aaron would let it go by.
We know that it’s been more than a year. At the start of the time travel arc Tom tells Tyler that he has to stop something that Zodon will start in about a year. Tyler messes with Zodon’s time machine and then (eventually) returns to his own time. Later, around vol. 5, we catch up to that story thread and get to see Zodon build the time machine. But I don’t know how much time has passed since then.
Thank you
Toby is a kid.
I actually feel like Tyler is being worse than Toby in this whole thing.
Unfortunately neither really have the tools to not do bad things to each other.
Toby keeps sabotaging Tyler’s attempts to pull away from that toxic waste dump of a home life because he really wants his family to work and doesn’t have the maturity to accept it.
Tyler keeps Toby at arms length, soft cuts Toby off from his formal friends, and sort of blames him for the way Evil Queen and Last Place treat him. Because kids his age can act that way to new babies even when they don’t have people actually forgetting they exist because the baby was born.
âChildâ means nothing. Children are not innocent. They are very capable of evil. Anyone claiming otherwise is forgetting what it was really like to be a child.
We have other glaring examples of kids-gone-wrong (Zodon, Victor, Alexandra, and alt-timeline Tyler himself) in this strip; even in our real world, children Tobyâs age are held accountable for horrific crimes. Toby has enough development to walk, talk, and reason things out already, and to know good from bad (and order from chaos), and to handle going to school. He had more than enough development to handle the Chaos & Order things & to understand that those things were wrong. Heâs not a blank slate. âNo means NOâ is basic enough for a toddler to understand (though said toddler will throw a tantrum over it). Toby isnât thowing tantrums, but he is completely ignoring Tylerâs stated wishes in the matter in order to change Tylerâs life without Tylerâs permission.
Child or not, developmentally grown or not, culpable or not, Toby is a super-powered kid with no controls & major boundary issues & is apparently unable to get what âNOâ means. Worse, heâs got parents that arenât reining him in. How many people are going to get wished-to-the-cornfield before someone finally deals with Toby?
Writing him off? Perhaps. But itâs going to take a huge lot of consequences & realizations & apologies before Iâll trust Tobyâs motivations.
Do remember, in this very strip, that Toby is working off of a “vague intuition” power that makes him think – perhaps by leaping to conclusions he shouldn’t – that this lady has Tyler’s best interests at heart as much as Toby does.
For me, this is an, “Oh, Toby…” moment, not a “Toby, you jerk” moment.
Hey, now, he’s not just handing Tyler powers — he semi-confessed that he tried that, and it didn’t work well, so he hit the cosmic Undo button. He’s just trying to get Tyler to Power & Glory’s store, along with a chunk of his own powers for payment — the Chaos Orb. To extend a metaphor, he isn’t handing Tyler a done deal, but a line of credit, and Tyler will have the option to refuse.
Bluntly, Toby is trying to fix what he believes he broke. From his perspective, HE’S what prevents Tyler’s family from caring about him, and he’s not entirely wrong — his powers had weird ways of enforcing the Chaos=Order rule before, from creating a fabric-centered supervillain to messing with Ultima Powers’ memory. And, like any child, he’s going to keep trying to fix it until he can be forcibly informed that it isn’t his problem, because he wants Tyler to be happy — and if that meant ceasing to exist, Toby would at least seriously consider it.
There’s no evidence that Toby’s powers have messed with anyone’s memories including but not limited to Ultima or Sovereign Powers. Ultima barely remembering his actual natural-born son and downgrading his security rating as a security risk is solely on him and his delusional beliefs regarding himself, superhumans in general, his son, and humans in general. Both of the Powers act as they due in complete keeping with what we’ve seen of them from long before the creation and empowerment of Toby. It’s a depressing reality but that IS the reality in regards to them. Toby had nothing to do with it.
Nightmask, even if you’re 100% right (and I’m still only giving you about a 50/50 on that, because it still strikes me as too heavy-handed a “oh, right…wait, we had two sons?” thing for it to be JUST their narcissism), that doesn’t mean TOBY won’t blame himself for it. Toby is, in a lot of ways, less mature than Tyler, and certainly less resigned to things he can’t do anything about not being his responsibility. So even if you’re right, and it’s purely natural Ultima and Sovereign Powers’s own horribleness, I wouldn’t put it past Toby to blame himself.
I mean, think how many kids do that in real life when their parents do awful things, from abuse to divorce to even just tragically dying. Now give that kid phenomenal reality-warping powers and a sense that he SHOULD be able to fix ANYTHING if he was just GOOD ENOUGH.
@segev obviously Toby does blame himself for Tyler’s parents pretty much forgetting about Tyler, even though it’s purely because Tyler’s parents are horrible people (because people in RL have had no problems forgetting about unfavorite children and only remembering the favorite child) and not Toby’s fault. So yes I agree he’s determined to ‘fix’ things because he hasn’t learned that there are things you can’t fix (and what it would take to fix Tyler’s parents would require seriously immoral and criminal levels of mind control to pull that off) and with his powers and the kind of example he’s got in Tyler’s parents he’s determined to carry out a plan that can’t actually succeed because he’s ignoring the warning his cosmic senses must be giving him about giving powers to Tyler.
“someplace special” = Power & Glory’s store.
“take something with him” = Chaos Orb.
Was this always the deal? Did P&G have this planned from before? And how did they know about the Orb? Their abilities are turning out more and more godlike.
Hardly god-like, what we’ve seen so far is more marketing of power-granting objects (which when tried on Tyler in the past have never worked) with a mysterious boss who may be some agent of some power or some mysterious power him/herself but we don’t really know at this point. Apparently the ‘advertising’ for the store is so random that they actually ask customers how they learned about the store because the notifications can be almost anything including a fortune in a fortune cookie. The actual level of powers involved for the two we’ve seen and the unseen one so far seem quite limited, although with how their boss works so far I just had the thought that he seems aware of things much like Toby, he MIGHT be an alternate reality or alternate future version of an adult Toby constrained by his original or similar restrictions so he’s left to subtly manipulate events trying to create something that will free him from it.
Okay, okay, you’re right. I think I got too awed by how they could have had Tyler in their plans since the beginning. I was assuming that they considered Tyler to be something big and special enough to be the price to pay for someone else’s powers. If Tyler is simply going to be brought to P&G to gain powers in exchange for the Chaos Orb, that’d be something else.
To be fair, we don’t know his extended family.
Given that his parents have failed to boast of them, I like to think that a lot of Tyler’s relatives are mundanes.
Yâknow, I just realized something, and I donât think itâs been brought up in prior posted pages.
Lester.
Lester Wilcox is introduced at the group therapy. He states he had the âManacle of Nyrathosâ which gave him âmagic powersâ until a âgadget nut in a capeâ (likely Revenant) took the Manacle away. The exact type of magic powers is not stated. Lester says outright that he was a super-villain & is only at the therapy because of his parole.
Why is he at this kidsâ party??
Worse: Heâs a chaperone. Heâs wearing a chaperoneâs communicator. Heâs evidently got some security clearance, enough to be in certain areas of the EDL Tower.
The EDL has allowed a known former super-villain into its tower, and heâs adult with an actual criminal record. Heâs a chaperone or security, which implies theyâve given him authority over their children. Yes, the Powers also invited Zodon & the Von Foggs…but as Revenant states, those are minor children without (open) criminal records. Lesterâs an adult, with a known record…AND….
Lester (supposedly) no longer has super-powers. He stated they were removed. Yet the Powers have him here, when they didnât even send an invite to the Son of Atlas (Ron) or any of Tyler/Tobyâs other non-powered friends. Remember, Tyler had to give Ron and Cecil their invites; all the âpoweredâ kids were auto-invited.
So why is a non-powered super-villain suddenly working security/chaperoning a meta-human slumber party, which is hosted by elitist meta-snobs who wonât bother with ânormalsâ? And why did Lester bother to follow Sarah/Dynamode to Tylerâs room? He shouldnât know about Sarahâs issues with Tyler, so he had no real reason to follow her. If Sarah is a child (or was forced into a childâs form), then Lester has even less reason to follow them. The kids hadnât tripped any alarms at that point, yet âunpowered former-super-villainâ Lester is conveniently in the right place when the problem starts.
We havenât seen Lester OR an uncostumed-Sarah since all this started, either. And we donât know who Power& Gloryâs disguised first-customer was. Toby wouldnât bother with a disguise â seriously, why would he disguise himself for that?
I smell a chessmaster here, and his name starts with L…
I suspect the opposite: Lester is her minion.
Consider that Sarah seems to have some sort of powers now. Even if it’s not what she had but only a gadget she purchased to use until she can pay for the “just right” package. If she needs a little helper, this gives her something to dangle before the nose of someone sufficiently unprincipled and desperate⌠and she happens to know someone who almost certainly will bite.
Sarah does have an obvious reason to do it. Of course, the contract may be fake to set her up, but Lester doesn’t have any known reasons to be there at all.
Zodon is very predictable. Which raises an interesting question: did someone suggest to invite all the clowns (knowing this pulls at Powers’ vanity) in hope they’ll make a great distraction sooner or later?
Youâre assuming heâs telling the truth. Super-villain, yâknow. Heâs an unreliable narrator. And he only says the âparoleâ line in the therapy session, before the idea of a party even existed. And âparoleâ does not answer the question of why the EDL would let a former supervilllain have ANY authority over their kids, or why the meta-elitist Powers think an *unpowered normal* would be an effective chaparone at a party for meta-powered kids.
There’s nothing to suggest Lester’s an unreliable narrator (being a former super-villain doesn’t automatically place one in that category) so there’s no reason to assume he must be lying. He’s at the party and clearly part of the chaperone group so his saying he’s under house arrest and forced into it is perfectly believable. He’s just what he looks like-a former super on restricted parole being used as a chaperone for the event who’d rather be anywhere else. No grand scheming on his part, no nefarious plans placing him there, just bog standard ex-criminal being subjected to some community service that he’s going along with only because it helps with serving his time and getting himself freed completely. It also earns him brownie points looking for work in the future being able to say he was used in such a position as he can spin it as a ‘see the heroes accept I’m reformed so you can trust me as an employee’ kind of thing.
@MatthewTheLucky No, actually it doesn’t. We KNOW that Lester is there with the approval of the EDL, he’s shown checking in with the person managing the computer net when he informs them that he’s got Tyler right in front of him and that he’s not running around elsewhere in the station. We know that he’s blunt and abrasive but we have NO evidence that we can’t rely on what he says, because again his status as a former super-villain, repentant or otherwise has no bearing on whether or not what he says can be relied on.
Unreliable narrators lie knowingly or unknowingly for a variety of reasons, but they all have reasons for it. Lester has demonstrated no reason to be lying (since once again just being a villain does not automatically make you one, nor does being a hero automatically make you not one), he has no incentive to lie that we’ve seen (imagined evil plotting with Sarah, in not being real, don’t count as an incentive) and is understandable as a choice since he’s part of the support group for supers who’ve lost their powers which he wouldn’t be in if he hadn’t been vetted as a good risk.
Some of the best villains are all the better for being truthful. Especially when either the heroâs donât believe them and allow something to happen or believe them and actually create a situation while trying to stop it.
Re-reading it, Lester being on house-arrest inside the EDL makes even LESS sense. Ok, sure, the EDL have him under house-arrest…do they do that with all their super-villains? Lester’s an unpowered normal, remember (sorry to keep harping on that, but the Powers are such super-elitists that I can’t believe they’ll do something like that for Lester. It does not fit the characters or what we’ve seen of the EDL.). He only got powers after finding those Manacle things. Why would EDL keep someone like that inside their tower for house-arrest? If he no longer has powers, it’d be easier & more sensible to let the regular parole system handle him — why tie up superheroes’ time babysitting this guy?
EDL making him a chaperone over their kids to boot? None of that’s making sense.
Being a super-villain (even a former one) totally DOES make him an unreliable narrator. If you think being under house-arrest inside the EDL somehow means he’s reliable, I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Really cheap, too.
@Chris PV okay first off nowhere did I say that that made Lester more reliable, secondly I shouldn’t have to keep repeating this but BEING A SUPER-VILLAIN, CURRENTLY OR PREVIOUSLY DOES NOT MAKE SOMEONE AN UNRELIABLE NARRATOR. It is NOT a defining aspect of being a villain nor is it a defining aspect of being a hero to be a reliable narrator. All you have to do is look at Tyler’s parents to see some seriously unreliable narrators.
Have you paid no attention at all to the Powers and what kind of people that they are? Lester isn’t some unpowered normal to them to them he’s one of them, a super who was crippled and stripped of his powers by some non-powered human daring to meddle in their affairs. Did you not pay attention to all the super-gadgets that are prizes for the kids and that they’d all been originally given to Tyler so that he could have super-powers? His parents don’t care at all if someone got their powers from a magical artifact like Lester did he’s still one of them, the elite, albeit a villain.
Seriously, you need way more than ‘I think all villains are unreliable narrators (i.e. liars) and therefor everything he’s said should be considered a lie’ to dismiss anything Lester’s said, because you don’t have a leg to stand on with that claim. Lester’s demonstrated once again NO REASON to believe him to be lying, the very fact that he’s in the tower with a tracking bracelet AND calls in to the person monitoring things about having Tyler right in front of him completely backs up what he said. But you seem to be conveniently ignoring those facts because they completely shoot down your claims he must be lying because ‘villains always lie all the time and never speak the truth.’
Have YOU paid no attention at all to the Powers & what kind of people they are? They ignore Tyler & even forget he exists, because Tyler has no powers. They’ve given Toby almost everything that used to be Tyler’s; they barely remember they have two sons…all because Tyler has no powers & Toby does.
Even Revenant has commented on this, that the Powers are people who think non-metas shouldn’t have any say in anything. So when you have people who disregard their own son because he has no meta-human abilities — yeah, sure, it makes total sense that they’d let an unpowered VILLAIN stay under house arrest in their tower…NOT.
If you remember, Lester said “a gadget freak” took his power-giving toy away. This makes Lester a NORMAL PERSON WITHOUT POWERS. So. Why do the Powers need to keep a normal unpowered person under house arrest in their tower and give him more access to said HQ than their own freakin’ SON? Why are they letting this unpowered normal person be at this party as a chaperone, when they couldn’t even be bothered to invite Cecil & Ron — y’know, their son Tyler’s unpowered friends?
It. Makes. No. Sense.
I have tons of legs to stand on with Lester. He’s a villain. That’s a bad guy. Y’know, evil, with nefarious plans. He’s said so, up front. Y’know what bad guys do, Nightmask? They do bad things. They LIE. Sure, they can tell the truth, but you trust them at your own risk. They are under no obligation to tell the truth, & they can lie by omission: not telling the whole truth. I’m not sure where you got the idea that as a former supervillain, Lester must be telling the truth & can’t be lying, because that’s a load of BS. Lester didn’t change. He only got caught. Hell yeah, Lester is unreliable: he had a powerful toy, he misused it, a hero got involved & took it away, & he’s now under parole & house arrest. You don’t get put on parole for petting kittens, mister. You trying to claim that Lester is reliable is tons more shakier than me stating he’s unreliable. Lester has done **nothing** to be proven reliable or trustworthy. He’s stated he’s a former villain & unrepentant about it. My money’s on “he’s lying”, until he proves otherwise.
Maybe he has another identity.
Also, perhaps someone known and trusted from the community (like that “Dynamode” girl) introduced him and helped to get this jobâŚ
Lester states he is under house arrest in the EDL Tower when he confronts Tyler, Ron and Sarah in Tyler and Ron’s room for the night. He also mentions chaperoning is part of his parole.
Could Sarah be at his support group to report his actions to his parents regarding powers and security? Is she hired to keep an eye on him and been also used for this due to needing extra personnel risking her cover?
Could the group also be cover as a reduced powered metas for hire? That would explain Sarah and an ex villain being there.
Still wouldnât fully explain the plot but would help cover some points that are missing.
Will Moonshadow finally be getting the spooky shadow powers everyone already thinks he has? Will Tyler be able to control the chaos orb? Will Sarah finally realize that she had her powers all along and that to get control of her powers back and break free of the mind control she has to give Tyler powers? How wonderfully vague is Aaron’s writing so that I could be totally wrong?
Also, P&G only have the one client right now. Sarah thinks they have a second client.
This is obviously going to end well…
How else could it end.
So, it seems Taylor is following in his parent’s well trodden steps of not actually asking what Tyler wants…
Except Toby remembers that when he still WAS Tyler – so to speak -, Tyler DID want his parents’ approval (even knowing how impossible that was for the obvious lack-of-power-shaped problem). It’s also quite obvious that all that seperates Tyler from said approval is aforementioned lack-of-power-shaped problem.
Toby’s only mistake is not realizing that he is working of an outdated view of what Tyler wants. In his eyes, he IS doing what will get his brother what he wants…
Tyler never wanted people working to get him powers behind his back. It never ends well and he knew that going into school. Tobies view is not just outdated its incomplete and clouded by how his own life progressed from there.
Doubt and stupidity can lead to many things. Tony wants WORKING powers that don’t com the earth. He knows his parents care for him because he has powers. So by that logic working powers that don’t room the earth would be perfect for his brother… The brother who has moonshadow lessons and has learned that one can be super without super powers.
Wow. Toby’s name got messed up no less that THREE times; (Taylor, Tobies, and Tony) in one thread!
Is that a record?
Don’t forget that Toby has no memory about Tyler’s moon shadow alter ego.
Hoo boy. This does not seem like it’ll do much good for Tyler’s and Taylor’s “brotherly” bond… đ
I completely agree. Even if Toby means well, even if Tyler knows that, it’s going to strain their relationship.
Toby lost the best friend he could have had but we know it was to save the world from Order/Chaos domination/open war. That’s something Tyler could understand.
But, here, even if Toby was successful in giving Tyler powers, the loss could be his brother’s love.
Toby lost his best friend? I don’t remember that one. When did this happen?
When Toby used his powers to undo Principal Cranston’s curse (the one that made other’s hear his thoughts) the two had to give something up to pay for it, Cranston lost his “redemption” while Toby lost the best friend he could have had, Cecil.
Er, we donât know who that best friend would have been. Both Cecil & Tyler are in that shot, remember? Cecil isnât exactly disposed to like meta-humans in the first place; he only accepted Malphast and Ron because Tyler spoke up for them, and Flea because…well…itâs Flea.
It took some time for Cranstonâs âno redemptionâ payback to pop up (& I think he gave up too easy; blaming a young boyâs powers because Cranston didnât have the guts to out the Headmaster & take the consequences is a cop-out). It could have also taken time for âgiving up your best friendâ to also come about. The ârewardâ for that was Cranston helping both Toby and Tyler stay with the Powers…and the direct result of THAT has been Tyler getting pushed aside, ignored, and forgotten because of Toby.
Itâs much more likelier that Tyler & Toby couldâve been best friends and allies, but now? With Toby doing the one thing Tyler said NO to, and ignoring Tylerâs wishes in the matter? Friendship sunk, and Tobyâs actions throughout the series since he was âbornâ have pretty much sunk ANY hope of friendship with Tyler.
@ Chris PV:
“Both Cecil & Tyler are in that shot, remember? Cecil isnât exactly disposed to like meta-humans in the first place; he only accepted Malphast and Ron because Tyler spoke up for them, and Flea becauseâŚwellâŚitâs Flea.”
The difference is that Toby remained on friendly, good, understanding terms with Tyler even after Toby’s intervention with Cranston’s case and his asking for help in keeping their family together. Toby and Tyler ARE (or, until now, WERE) friends.
And in citing Malphast, Ron, and the Flea, you pointed out that Cecil’s distrust for metahumans could be overcome. The ending of the “Malphast and the Mysterious ‘Meh'” showed Cecil shutting that door completely.
“It took some time for Cranstonâs âno redemptionâ payback to pop up (& I think he gave up too easy; blaming a young boyâs powers because Cranston didnât have the guts to out the Headmaster & take the consequences is a cop-out). It could have also taken time for âgiving up your best friendâ to also come about. The ârewardâ for that was Cranston helping both Toby and Tyler stay with the PowersâŚand the direct result of THAT has been Tyler getting pushed aside, ignored, and forgotten because of Toby.”
Cranston didn’t blame Toby, nor was it a cop-out, nor did it “take some time”.
Do you actually think people will simply accept the explanation of man who used his secret mental powers not just to have an amazing political career but became PotUS? Given his accomplishments with said super power and abilities in political subterfuge, why should they believe and trust his telling them that
a) the preventive and punitive measure against his misuse of powers (the inhibitor) was removed by *accident and emergency* (rather than by his own machinations), and
b) the preventive and punitive measure against the unauthorized removal of said inhibitor (a magic curse) had proper justification to be removed (they won’t- they’ll see the telepathic broadcasting instead as just punishment and the undoing of the curse to be an escape of justice)?
Remember that Dr. Newby- who’s a pretty nice person and sworn to help all by nature of her profession- was quite shocked and displeased by the discovery of the truth behind Cranston.
The truth is that Cranston gave up redemption the moment he received Toby’s help. This isn’t even the result of some sort of magical or super-powered or whatnot effect; this is the completely natural consequence of a legal and political agreement, even if you and I think it was for a good reason. If you or I or anyone else in Cranston’s shoes were to do something similar- even if in much less metahuman circumstances- a lot of people would not think of us as justified or trustworthy.
In regards to the Headmaster specifically, the Headmaster has the advantage. He has a clone out there of himself as Senator Durvin. He’s going to be trusted more than Cranston specifically where his political career involved safeguarding people from the abuse of metahuman powers even by superheroes. Cranston’s removal of inhibitor and escape of its curse is going to be seen as an abuse of such; it’s ammunition for the Headmaster, not for Cranston, to be used on the other.
It wasn’t a cop out. It wasn’t giving up. It was knowing that he had no chance of winning that fight.
As for Tyler, if you think how his life has been was bad since Toby became recognized as his twin, how do you know his life would have been better had Toby not made that deal with Cranston? For example, what could have happened instead is the Marlockes/Powers instead recognizing Toby as their son and Tyler as a clone. Remember that Tyler’s folks are already horrible to begin with.
“Itâs much more likelier that Tyler & Toby couldâve been best friends and allies, but now? With Toby doing the one thing Tyler said NO to, and ignoring Tylerâs wishes in the matter? Friendship sunk, and Tobyâs actions throughout the series since he was âbornâ have pretty much sunk ANY hope of friendship with Tyler.”
The thing is that they already were. Now, we don’t know how Tyler and Toby will be to each other.
@Chris PV
Correction:
“this is the completely natural consequence of a legal and political agreement”
should be
“this is the completely natural consequence of breaking a legal and political agreement”
About the former president, it really looks like he used his mental powers to gather information to be able to refute lies about himself quickly and effectively. It was an invasion of privacy and gave him an advantage that other candidates did not have but the people actually voted for him and it seems like the only thing he actually lied about was about having them. But on to the headband. If the headband was a legal thing it would inform the proper authorities or knock him out if it was taken off not curse him.
On the subject of adoption. It could have made it slightly easier to forget that Tyler exists and slightly changed the brand of terrible they are to Tyler. What it clearly does though is gives the Evil Queen and Last Place authority over Toby’s life. Where do you think Toby would live if the adoption papers were not filed.
@TemperaryObsessor
“About the former president, it really looks like he used his mental powers to gather information to be able to refute lies about himself quickly and effectively. It was an invasion of privacy and gave him an advantage that other candidates did not have but the people actually voted for him and it seems like the only thing he actually lied about was about having them.”
People voted for him NOT KNOWING he was a meta with mental powers WHO USED said powers to further his political career. Examples of such people would be Dr. Newby and her dad. And having found out about it, she was unhappy to the point of implying she and her dad (and everyone else who honestly voted for Cranston as President) would not have done it had they known. (11222010, 12202010)
Furthermore, it’s implied Cranston didn’t just use his psychic powers to refute lies about himself. He used it to counter any and every political strategy being used against him or that he fought against. (11262010) Even if you consider it just an “invasion or privacy” and “unfair advantage”, that’s BIG AND BAD ENOUGH ethically, legally, and socially in lower position politics, much less being PotUS.
“But on to the headband. If the headband was a legal thing it would inform the proper authorities or knock him out if it was taken off not curse him.”
It DID try to (MORE THAN) knock him out when it was taken off (12172010). And Vashti’s curse was indeed part of the legal arrangements (12292010 & 07292011).
Who knows why it didn’t inform other people (assuming the Headmaster found it via the Proctor’s link with the Positrons)? Maybe Newby’s attempt to jam it did that. It doesn’t matter at this point- it’s bad enough info that the Headmaster can use it to destroy Cranston.
“On the subject of adoption. It could have made it slightly easier to forget that Tyler exists and slightly changed the brand of terrible they are to Tyler. What it clearly does though is gives the Evil Queen and Last Place authority over Tobyâs life. Where do you think Toby would live if the adoption papers were not filed.”
I’m confused by what you mean here. Assuming you mean that without Cranston helping Toby get an adoption, the Marlockes/Powers would have simply replaced Tyler with Toby (completely forgetting/ignoring/neglecting Tyler) then I agree with you. If somehow the legal recognition of Toby as twin of Tyler means they haven’t completely thrown Tyler out of their lives or sent him away to an orphanage, yeah, why not?
Without Craingston helping Toby get an adoption the Evil Queen and Last Place would have had to work for it. I believe that months of filing paperwork so they could be Toby’s parents would make it slightly harder to forget that Toby was in fact a clone which could have slightly changed the brand of terrible they were to Tyler.
Making it easy for the Evil Queen and Last Place to adopt a child when they are clearly unfit parents was most likely a bad idea. It means all Toby can do is argue with his parents decisions and can’t actually go to anyone about wanting to live in the dorms or wanting to spend time with his friends or not wanting to be pulled out of school for a week to do missions with his “parents”.
@TemperaryObsessor
“Without Craingston helping Toby get an adoption the Evil Queen and Last Place would have had to work for it.”
This assumes there would have still been an intention on their part to adopt Toby WHILE KEEPING Tyler.
It’s quite possible for them to rationalize that Tyler was the clone and Toby was the original, with the latter somehow gaining powers.* And, as a “clone” without legally recognized rights (it took Cranston and Riley to come up with something and only AFTER Toby had cut a deal with Cranston), they could have dumped Tyler.
Besides, if they would have adopted Toby anyway and kept Tyler without Cranston’s legal aid, why would Toby go through all the trouble of cutting a deal with Cranston at the expense of him losing his (possible) best friend Cecil? He could have just cured Cranston of his curse; by not asking for legal help, such an act would not help Toby and thus it wouldn’t need to be balanced out, so he’d end up friends with Cecil instead of the door being closed. And Toby has some quantum precognition to sense the outcomes of his actions, so he’d have seen that.
On that last point, I’m guessing Toby may have foreseen that the deal with Cranston was necessary to keep his family together.
* In fact, go back to how things went: remote body Tyler- whom the Powers think is their actual kid- goes to the Fusion Family barbecue and displays powers. He falls unconscious with his parents at his side since. He wakes up and gains a costume and beats his first “super villain”. Toby realizes things have gone awry and goes off to consult Tyler then eventually makes a deal with Cranston. The Powers, Toby, and Tyler meet with Cranston, Riley, and Wooster. Toby is in his Kid Powers costume, the one they’d given him. To them, it would have seemed that the costumed “Tyler”- who had been with them all that time- was the REAL Tyler, not this other kid in different clothes. I doubt they’d accept any protestation from Toby that he was a different kid, and not the original Tyler.
Furthermore, note that Cranston specifically referred to Tyler and Toby as “TWINS” and refused to DIVULGE the origin of Toby.** I now wonder if he really did it to spare the Power parents from distress or to protect Tyler.
But, whatever the case, I’m sure Toby approaching Cranston and Cranston’s deft handling of the situation ensured that Tyler’s fears did not come to pass, with both Tyler and Toby being “recognized” (emphasis on quotation marks) as children of the Marlockes (even if Sovereign and Ultima suck at being parents to Tyler).
** Do the Powers even know that Toby is not actually Tyler’s twin but his clone? Seriously. This is NOT a rhetorical question. Do they know?
@ TemperaryObsessor
“Making it easy for the Evil Queen and Last Place to adopt a child when they are clearly unfit parents was most likely a bad idea. It means all Toby can do is argue with his parents decisions and canât actually go to anyone about wanting to live in the dorms or wanting to spend time with his friends or not wanting to be pulled out of school for a week to do missions with his ‘parents’.”
Except that we’re not seeing any of that. In fact, Sovereign and Ultima seem to be so happy about Toby to the point of super parental laxity.
On Toby’s side, he seems to be more focused on using his powers to “fix” Tyler’s situation, coming up with schemes and plans and whatnot. He doesn’t seem to be arguing or fighting them, either.
And, besides, with Toby’s powers, his parents can’t really do much to stop him from going out on his own (flight, teleport, etc.). This also doesn’t matter because- following my first statement- they’re not trying to stop or hinder him anyway from doing anything.
In fact, this party isn’t something they questioned, they even blew it up to ridiculous proportions, nevermind that Tyler lost access to high security areas.
Gotta add: pretty good bet Tyler is going to see this as a form of betrayal.
…this team-up is totally not going to lead to badtimes…
Oh good, that’s a relief.
It sounds very much like Toby is Power & Glory’s other client — but not for himself, but for Tyler. I imagine Toby has made a deal with P&G, and “all” they want in return for giving Tyler powers would be… oh, I dunno, a chaos-orb?
Gods, if this was ârealâ, Iâd be doing my damnedest to get Tyler out of there, make the Powers sign the papers to sever all parental rights, and adopt Tyler myself. Right now, Tyler should get out if there, call Rev for a pickup, and engineer Tylerâs fake death.
The parents have made me enraged throughout this strip, at the level of emotional abuse theyâve pulled, but at least Tyler has support from Rev & his real friends for dealing with that. Tobyâs actions, though, are truly, deeply, PISSING ME OFF. Whether or not he âknowsâ what Tyler wants, he forgot one very important step: ASKING TYLERâS PERMISSION. Tylerâs body, Tylerâs life, Tylerâs freakinâ rules, kiddo. Toby has just jumped right over the edge into Villain status.
Sometimes the best of intentions can lead one into villainy and Toby is certainly on that path, he just hasn’t learned anything from what he remembers of Tyler’s parents trying to force powers onto him as well as what happened when he tried it. He should understand by now that the cosmic balance requires Tyler remain as he is appearing in all ways as a completely normal non-powered human (which would explain why when he powered up Tyler the entire planet’s population went super and it nearly destroyed the planet, Tyler’s required to represent non-powered humanity so paradoxically has the power to resist being powered at a minimum).
The whole cosmic balance thing is too much for any kid to grasp and fully understand the ramifications of. Itâs the simpler, basic âTYLER SAID NOâ thatâs the final word on the matter.
Remember the alternate time-lines Tyler saw in the mirrors? Remember that one of Tobyâs costume choices was what the Evil-Tyler wore in one of those timelines? Remember that the Parents chose âAbsolute Powersâ for the kidâs superhero name, and itâs obvious they never read Machiavelli. Absolute power has corrupted this kid, and heâs not on the path â heâs wallowing in the mud of it. Heâs even working with someone of unknown motives, whoâs already threatened and stalked Tyler.
No, what little sympathy I had for Toby is now long gone.
Friendly reminder that, not only is Toby literally a /child/, but he is not actually the age he appears to be at that. Yes, he was made from Tyler, and he has some of Tyler’s memories, but he is /not/ Tyler, is not actually ~ten-to-twelve years old (sidenote: does anyone have a timeline on this strip? Or is it kinda like ‘Batman’s been around for eighty-plus years but he’s not that old?). He, Toby, has not had the socialization necessary (as /Toby/) to have the sorts of realizations that we, as adults, think he should have had based on his appearance. Especially since his primary socialization, outside of superhero school, has been provided by emotionally abusive adults who believe that powers are a necessity to self-fulfillment.
You have a point about the costume choice being possible foreshadowing, but honestly, acting like a /child/ has been entirely corrupted by power and deciding to write him off is disturbing. And a lot of comments on this particular strip are doing this, which I find personally upsetting in a comic that, time and time again, has shown children being manipulated by adults and systems of authority and always, /always/ rightfully places the responsibility on the authority figures in their lives. Because they are /children/.
I don’t have an actual timeline, but I believe that it should be just about time for the school to start decorating for Halloween.
Of course, if things had progressed in real-time, Tyler and Julie could potentially have a kid who’s just about old enough to enroll.
There really aren’t any contextual clues about timing in the comic. We know the post-Septos barbecue was before Christmas, as Suzie was looking forward to the holidays. But that would be true of every Christmas. There was a trick-or-treating bonus story in one of the trades. Otherwise, nothing’s been mentioned. Not even summer vacation, which is such an obvious plot hook I can’t believe Aaron would let it go by.
Arguably, that means this is all one school year.
We know that it’s been more than a year. At the start of the time travel arc Tom tells Tyler that he has to stop something that Zodon will start in about a year. Tyler messes with Zodon’s time machine and then (eventually) returns to his own time. Later, around vol. 5, we catch up to that story thread and get to see Zodon build the time machine. But I don’t know how much time has passed since then.
Thank you
Toby is a kid.
I actually feel like Tyler is being worse than Toby in this whole thing.
Unfortunately neither really have the tools to not do bad things to each other.
Toby keeps sabotaging Tyler’s attempts to pull away from that toxic waste dump of a home life because he really wants his family to work and doesn’t have the maturity to accept it.
Tyler keeps Toby at arms length, soft cuts Toby off from his formal friends, and sort of blames him for the way Evil Queen and Last Place treat him. Because kids his age can act that way to new babies even when they don’t have people actually forgetting they exist because the baby was born.
âChildâ means nothing. Children are not innocent. They are very capable of evil. Anyone claiming otherwise is forgetting what it was really like to be a child.
We have other glaring examples of kids-gone-wrong (Zodon, Victor, Alexandra, and alt-timeline Tyler himself) in this strip; even in our real world, children Tobyâs age are held accountable for horrific crimes. Toby has enough development to walk, talk, and reason things out already, and to know good from bad (and order from chaos), and to handle going to school. He had more than enough development to handle the Chaos & Order things & to understand that those things were wrong. Heâs not a blank slate. âNo means NOâ is basic enough for a toddler to understand (though said toddler will throw a tantrum over it). Toby isnât thowing tantrums, but he is completely ignoring Tylerâs stated wishes in the matter in order to change Tylerâs life without Tylerâs permission.
Child or not, developmentally grown or not, culpable or not, Toby is a super-powered kid with no controls & major boundary issues & is apparently unable to get what âNOâ means. Worse, heâs got parents that arenât reining him in. How many people are going to get wished-to-the-cornfield before someone finally deals with Toby?
Writing him off? Perhaps. But itâs going to take a huge lot of consequences & realizations & apologies before Iâll trust Tobyâs motivations.
Do remember, in this very strip, that Toby is working off of a “vague intuition” power that makes him think – perhaps by leaping to conclusions he shouldn’t – that this lady has Tyler’s best interests at heart as much as Toby does.
For me, this is an, “Oh, Toby…” moment, not a “Toby, you jerk” moment.
Hey, now, he’s not just handing Tyler powers — he semi-confessed that he tried that, and it didn’t work well, so he hit the cosmic Undo button. He’s just trying to get Tyler to Power & Glory’s store, along with a chunk of his own powers for payment — the Chaos Orb. To extend a metaphor, he isn’t handing Tyler a done deal, but a line of credit, and Tyler will have the option to refuse.
Bluntly, Toby is trying to fix what he believes he broke. From his perspective, HE’S what prevents Tyler’s family from caring about him, and he’s not entirely wrong — his powers had weird ways of enforcing the Chaos=Order rule before, from creating a fabric-centered supervillain to messing with Ultima Powers’ memory. And, like any child, he’s going to keep trying to fix it until he can be forcibly informed that it isn’t his problem, because he wants Tyler to be happy — and if that meant ceasing to exist, Toby would at least seriously consider it.
There’s no evidence that Toby’s powers have messed with anyone’s memories including but not limited to Ultima or Sovereign Powers. Ultima barely remembering his actual natural-born son and downgrading his security rating as a security risk is solely on him and his delusional beliefs regarding himself, superhumans in general, his son, and humans in general. Both of the Powers act as they due in complete keeping with what we’ve seen of them from long before the creation and empowerment of Toby. It’s a depressing reality but that IS the reality in regards to them. Toby had nothing to do with it.
Nightmask, even if you’re 100% right (and I’m still only giving you about a 50/50 on that, because it still strikes me as too heavy-handed a “oh, right…wait, we had two sons?” thing for it to be JUST their narcissism), that doesn’t mean TOBY won’t blame himself for it. Toby is, in a lot of ways, less mature than Tyler, and certainly less resigned to things he can’t do anything about not being his responsibility. So even if you’re right, and it’s purely natural Ultima and Sovereign Powers’s own horribleness, I wouldn’t put it past Toby to blame himself.
I mean, think how many kids do that in real life when their parents do awful things, from abuse to divorce to even just tragically dying. Now give that kid phenomenal reality-warping powers and a sense that he SHOULD be able to fix ANYTHING if he was just GOOD ENOUGH.
@segev obviously Toby does blame himself for Tyler’s parents pretty much forgetting about Tyler, even though it’s purely because Tyler’s parents are horrible people (because people in RL have had no problems forgetting about unfavorite children and only remembering the favorite child) and not Toby’s fault. So yes I agree he’s determined to ‘fix’ things because he hasn’t learned that there are things you can’t fix (and what it would take to fix Tyler’s parents would require seriously immoral and criminal levels of mind control to pull that off) and with his powers and the kind of example he’s got in Tyler’s parents he’s determined to carry out a plan that can’t actually succeed because he’s ignoring the warning his cosmic senses must be giving him about giving powers to Tyler.
I wonder if power and glory want a chaos orb in their inventory??
There’s sure to be a buyer for one at some point.
Oh this is going to end well. Toby will get the good powers and Tyler will be fused to the chaos powers and royally screw him up.
If Toby is referring to the Chaos Orb, this is a different definition of “safe” than I’m familiar with.
A little off, but one of my favorite “Hitchhiker’s Guide” quotes!
“someplace special” = Power & Glory’s store.
“take something with him” = Chaos Orb.
Was this always the deal? Did P&G have this planned from before? And how did they know about the Orb? Their abilities are turning out more and more godlike.
Hardly god-like, what we’ve seen so far is more marketing of power-granting objects (which when tried on Tyler in the past have never worked) with a mysterious boss who may be some agent of some power or some mysterious power him/herself but we don’t really know at this point. Apparently the ‘advertising’ for the store is so random that they actually ask customers how they learned about the store because the notifications can be almost anything including a fortune in a fortune cookie. The actual level of powers involved for the two we’ve seen and the unseen one so far seem quite limited, although with how their boss works so far I just had the thought that he seems aware of things much like Toby, he MIGHT be an alternate reality or alternate future version of an adult Toby constrained by his original or similar restrictions so he’s left to subtly manipulate events trying to create something that will free him from it.
Okay, okay, you’re right. I think I got too awed by how they could have had Tyler in their plans since the beginning. I was assuming that they considered Tyler to be something big and special enough to be the price to pay for someone else’s powers. If Tyler is simply going to be brought to P&G to gain powers in exchange for the Chaos Orb, that’d be something else.
Oh, Toby…. this is gonna ruin Tyler’s trust in him.
I really hope he’s not talking about the Chaos Orb, but I’m not sure what else he could be referring to here, tbh (cue a reread of this strip).
Someone teach this child ethics, please.
Ugh, is there anyone in Tyler’s “family” who isn’t annoying as heck?
Tyler.
To be fair, we don’t know his extended family.
Given that his parents have failed to boast of them, I like to think that a lot of Tyler’s relatives are mundanes.
Yâknow, I just realized something, and I donât think itâs been brought up in prior posted pages.
Lester.
Lester Wilcox is introduced at the group therapy. He states he had the âManacle of Nyrathosâ which gave him âmagic powersâ until a âgadget nut in a capeâ (likely Revenant) took the Manacle away. The exact type of magic powers is not stated. Lester says outright that he was a super-villain & is only at the therapy because of his parole.
Why is he at this kidsâ party??
Worse: Heâs a chaperone. Heâs wearing a chaperoneâs communicator. Heâs evidently got some security clearance, enough to be in certain areas of the EDL Tower.
The EDL has allowed a known former super-villain into its tower, and heâs adult with an actual criminal record. Heâs a chaperone or security, which implies theyâve given him authority over their children. Yes, the Powers also invited Zodon & the Von Foggs…but as Revenant states, those are minor children without (open) criminal records. Lesterâs an adult, with a known record…AND….
Lester (supposedly) no longer has super-powers. He stated they were removed. Yet the Powers have him here, when they didnât even send an invite to the Son of Atlas (Ron) or any of Tyler/Tobyâs other non-powered friends. Remember, Tyler had to give Ron and Cecil their invites; all the âpoweredâ kids were auto-invited.
So why is a non-powered super-villain suddenly working security/chaperoning a meta-human slumber party, which is hosted by elitist meta-snobs who wonât bother with ânormalsâ? And why did Lester bother to follow Sarah/Dynamode to Tylerâs room? He shouldnât know about Sarahâs issues with Tyler, so he had no real reason to follow her. If Sarah is a child (or was forced into a childâs form), then Lester has even less reason to follow them. The kids hadnât tripped any alarms at that point, yet âunpowered former-super-villainâ Lester is conveniently in the right place when the problem starts.
We havenât seen Lester OR an uncostumed-Sarah since all this started, either. And we donât know who Power& Gloryâs disguised first-customer was. Toby wouldnât bother with a disguise â seriously, why would he disguise himself for that?
I smell a chessmaster here, and his name starts with L…
That does seem very plausible…
That… could happen. 0_0
Ohhh, dear.
I suspect the opposite: Lester is her minion.
Consider that Sarah seems to have some sort of powers now. Even if it’s not what she had but only a gadget she purchased to use until she can pay for the “just right” package. If she needs a little helper, this gives her something to dangle before the nose of someone sufficiently unprincipled and desperate⌠and she happens to know someone who almost certainly will bite.
Either way, both are out of place. And Sarahâs being the way-too-obvious one here. Thatâs why I suspect Lester. Sarahâs set up to take the fall.
And isnât it weird that Zodonâs plans are lining up so nicely with whatever Lester or Sarah have going on?
Sarah does have an obvious reason to do it. Of course, the contract may be fake to set her up, but Lester doesn’t have any known reasons to be there at all.
Zodon is very predictable. Which raises an interesting question: did someone suggest to invite all the clowns (knowing this pulls at Powers’ vanity) in hope they’ll make a great distraction sooner or later?
He explicitly says this is all part of his parole. No chessmaster needed.
Youâre assuming heâs telling the truth. Super-villain, yâknow. Heâs an unreliable narrator. And he only says the âparoleâ line in the therapy session, before the idea of a party even existed. And âparoleâ does not answer the question of why the EDL would let a former supervilllain have ANY authority over their kids, or why the meta-elitist Powers think an *unpowered normal* would be an effective chaparone at a party for meta-powered kids.
There’s nothing to suggest Lester’s an unreliable narrator (being a former super-villain doesn’t automatically place one in that category) so there’s no reason to assume he must be lying. He’s at the party and clearly part of the chaperone group so his saying he’s under house arrest and forced into it is perfectly believable. He’s just what he looks like-a former super on restricted parole being used as a chaperone for the event who’d rather be anywhere else. No grand scheming on his part, no nefarious plans placing him there, just bog standard ex-criminal being subjected to some community service that he’s going along with only because it helps with serving his time and getting himself freed completely. It also earns him brownie points looking for work in the future being able to say he was used in such a position as he can spin it as a ‘see the heroes accept I’m reformed so you can trust me as an employee’ kind of thing.
Being an unrepentant former villain totally makes you an unreliable narrator.
@MatthewTheLucky No, actually it doesn’t. We KNOW that Lester is there with the approval of the EDL, he’s shown checking in with the person managing the computer net when he informs them that he’s got Tyler right in front of him and that he’s not running around elsewhere in the station. We know that he’s blunt and abrasive but we have NO evidence that we can’t rely on what he says, because again his status as a former super-villain, repentant or otherwise has no bearing on whether or not what he says can be relied on.
Unreliable narrators lie knowingly or unknowingly for a variety of reasons, but they all have reasons for it. Lester has demonstrated no reason to be lying (since once again just being a villain does not automatically make you one, nor does being a hero automatically make you not one), he has no incentive to lie that we’ve seen (imagined evil plotting with Sarah, in not being real, don’t count as an incentive) and is understandable as a choice since he’s part of the support group for supers who’ve lost their powers which he wouldn’t be in if he hadn’t been vetted as a good risk.
Some of the best villains are all the better for being truthful. Especially when either the heroâs donât believe them and allow something to happen or believe them and actually create a situation while trying to stop it.
Re-reading it, Lester being on house-arrest inside the EDL makes even LESS sense. Ok, sure, the EDL have him under house-arrest…do they do that with all their super-villains? Lester’s an unpowered normal, remember (sorry to keep harping on that, but the Powers are such super-elitists that I can’t believe they’ll do something like that for Lester. It does not fit the characters or what we’ve seen of the EDL.). He only got powers after finding those Manacle things. Why would EDL keep someone like that inside their tower for house-arrest? If he no longer has powers, it’d be easier & more sensible to let the regular parole system handle him — why tie up superheroes’ time babysitting this guy?
EDL making him a chaperone over their kids to boot? None of that’s making sense.
Being a super-villain (even a former one) totally DOES make him an unreliable narrator. If you think being under house-arrest inside the EDL somehow means he’s reliable, I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Really cheap, too.
@Chris PV okay first off nowhere did I say that that made Lester more reliable, secondly I shouldn’t have to keep repeating this but BEING A SUPER-VILLAIN, CURRENTLY OR PREVIOUSLY DOES NOT MAKE SOMEONE AN UNRELIABLE NARRATOR. It is NOT a defining aspect of being a villain nor is it a defining aspect of being a hero to be a reliable narrator. All you have to do is look at Tyler’s parents to see some seriously unreliable narrators.
Have you paid no attention at all to the Powers and what kind of people that they are? Lester isn’t some unpowered normal to them to them he’s one of them, a super who was crippled and stripped of his powers by some non-powered human daring to meddle in their affairs. Did you not pay attention to all the super-gadgets that are prizes for the kids and that they’d all been originally given to Tyler so that he could have super-powers? His parents don’t care at all if someone got their powers from a magical artifact like Lester did he’s still one of them, the elite, albeit a villain.
Seriously, you need way more than ‘I think all villains are unreliable narrators (i.e. liars) and therefor everything he’s said should be considered a lie’ to dismiss anything Lester’s said, because you don’t have a leg to stand on with that claim. Lester’s demonstrated once again NO REASON to believe him to be lying, the very fact that he’s in the tower with a tracking bracelet AND calls in to the person monitoring things about having Tyler right in front of him completely backs up what he said. But you seem to be conveniently ignoring those facts because they completely shoot down your claims he must be lying because ‘villains always lie all the time and never speak the truth.’
Wow, Nightmask. Heated much?
Have YOU paid no attention at all to the Powers & what kind of people they are? They ignore Tyler & even forget he exists, because Tyler has no powers. They’ve given Toby almost everything that used to be Tyler’s; they barely remember they have two sons…all because Tyler has no powers & Toby does.
Even Revenant has commented on this, that the Powers are people who think non-metas shouldn’t have any say in anything. So when you have people who disregard their own son because he has no meta-human abilities — yeah, sure, it makes total sense that they’d let an unpowered VILLAIN stay under house arrest in their tower…NOT.
If you remember, Lester said “a gadget freak” took his power-giving toy away. This makes Lester a NORMAL PERSON WITHOUT POWERS. So. Why do the Powers need to keep a normal unpowered person under house arrest in their tower and give him more access to said HQ than their own freakin’ SON? Why are they letting this unpowered normal person be at this party as a chaperone, when they couldn’t even be bothered to invite Cecil & Ron — y’know, their son Tyler’s unpowered friends?
It. Makes. No. Sense.
I have tons of legs to stand on with Lester. He’s a villain. That’s a bad guy. Y’know, evil, with nefarious plans. He’s said so, up front. Y’know what bad guys do, Nightmask? They do bad things. They LIE. Sure, they can tell the truth, but you trust them at your own risk. They are under no obligation to tell the truth, & they can lie by omission: not telling the whole truth. I’m not sure where you got the idea that as a former supervillain, Lester must be telling the truth & can’t be lying, because that’s a load of BS. Lester didn’t change. He only got caught. Hell yeah, Lester is unreliable: he had a powerful toy, he misused it, a hero got involved & took it away, & he’s now under parole & house arrest. You don’t get put on parole for petting kittens, mister. You trying to claim that Lester is reliable is tons more shakier than me stating he’s unreliable. Lester has done **nothing** to be proven reliable or trustworthy. He’s stated he’s a former villain & unrepentant about it. My money’s on “he’s lying”, until he proves otherwise.
Maybe he has another identity.
Also, perhaps someone known and trusted from the community (like that “Dynamode” girl) introduced him and helped to get this jobâŚ
Lester states he is under house arrest in the EDL Tower when he confronts Tyler, Ron and Sarah in Tyler and Ron’s room for the night. He also mentions chaperoning is part of his parole.
Could Sarah be at his support group to report his actions to his parents regarding powers and security? Is she hired to keep an eye on him and been also used for this due to needing extra personnel risking her cover?
Could the group also be cover as a reduced powered metas for hire? That would explain Sarah and an ex villain being there.
Still wouldnât fully explain the plot but would help cover some points that are missing.
Will Moonshadow finally be getting the spooky shadow powers everyone already thinks he has? Will Tyler be able to control the chaos orb? Will Sarah finally realize that she had her powers all along and that to get control of her powers back and break free of the mind control she has to give Tyler powers? How wonderfully vague is Aaron’s writing so that I could be totally wrong?
Also, P&G only have the one client right now. Sarah thinks they have a second client.
Nope, sorry, just reread it, there is a second customer for P&G and it probably is Toby.
Why do I see the chaos orb getting into Tyler