Very, very interesting concept and design for a character. A Lovecraftian superhero? I like. The multiple glowing eyes from under a hood and shaking of hands by cape is a nice touch.
And maybe Necronomik agrees with you. He’s quite considerate, making sure not to touch the sane mortals directly, and instead using his prehensile cape as a safer proxy limb.
Well, just because one is a metahuman drawing from the same mind-blasting cosmic obscenity that fuels the Elder Gods, one doesn’t actually have to be RUDE.
Yes, Toby is a clone of Tyler, but the amount of magic, tech, and other general super crap that went into actually giving Toby a soul makes me wonder how the heck they can be anything alike. Also, “smell”? Someone rap that dog on his noses.
Toby does share some of Tyler’s quick-thinking and sadness, IIRC, as seen from the time the forces of Order and Chaos were trying to directly take over our motal world (I have to check). He came up with part of the solution (with Tyler providing the other part). At the same time, sure, Toby gets all the adoration of their parents to Tyler’s sorrow, but Toby doesn’t have one thing: a best friend (Cecil).
Of course, we have to take note of how even Toby hasn’t/can’t make the connection between Tyler and Moon Shadow. That seems to imply that having superpowers skews your perception of reality to the point of failing to see some of the most obvious things.
Why do so many people seem obsessed with the idea that Tyler must secretly have powers after all? Why can’t he really be a normal boy? You’re all as bad as his parents.
From the looks of things Toby has all of Tyler’s memories EXCEPT those related to the Revenant and his adventures prior to the creation of the clone (since it’d hardly be useful having the clone be a blank slate as he’d be a drooling infant). So no surprise that their souls seem so identical, being as they’re basically even more identical than identical twins since even identical twins don’t have shared identical memories.
There’s also no reason to think super-powers cause such kinds of obliviousness, it’s far more plausible that it’s Tyler who unconsciously creates that kind of effect than super-powers causing everyone who has them to be clueless regarding his secret. Cecil just sees through it because of his own powers since along with his ability to sense meta-humans he’s also seems to have a potentially super-human ability to pick up on clues and develop fairly accurate conclusions from them. Then again it’s possible that such cluelessness is normal to humans with or without powers in the PS238verse and people like Revenant, Tyler, and Cecil are exceptions.
Cecil doesn’t detect any superpowers in Tyler. If we assume your theory is correct (“it’s far more plausible that it’s Tyler who unconsciously creates that kind of effect than super-powers causing everyone who has them to be clueless regarding his secret”), then this has to be a mundane, non-super effect. Therefore, it would be just like how people can be so surprised or incredulous when a superhero’s alter ego- and its stark difference with their heroic persona- is revealed to them. For example, there are stories where Batman was revealed to be Bruce Wayne, but the people who find out reject the revelation because Bruce is a rich idiot with no day job and a playboy. Same thing with Superman- people can’t believe that milquetoast Clark Kent- a mix of big galoot, nerd, country bumpkin from Kanas- could be the mighty Man of Steel.
The thing is that this obliviousness isn’t just about Tyler/Moon Shadow. It also applies to the belief of some supers that non-powered heroes, such as the Revenant, have no business trying to help others. More greatly, the Revenant points out that some superheroes believe that ordinary people have no place in solving mankind’s problems- even if those problems mainly belong to ordinary people and not to metas. As the Revenant puts it, “It’s amazing what people will overlook, even when it’s right in front of them, isn’t it?” (05082009)
If you take that and go back to Tyler, then it paints a pretty sad picture of his parents while making you wonder what other supers are like that.
Cecil’s inability to detect super-powers in Tyler doesn’t mean he doesn’t have any, only that Tyler appears normal to Cecil’s power-detecting power. As Cecil himself even points out Tyler could have more than one power or the power could among other thing mask itself from Cecil’s power (at which point it might then explain while Cecil has no problems seeing through Tyler’s disguise since the power is too busy masking to conceal as well).
As far as the attitudes of supers towards non-supers go, we’ve seen a small sampling of adult supers so far with a range of personalities, it’s not surprising you’d have super-supremacists who look down on non-supers but it’s possible Tyler’s parents are the minority opinion but hold a large minority share. Yes it is a sad picture when you look at his parents along with those who think like them. They relate normally to other supers but are losing touch with the human condition (which is why as Revenant noted they panic when their powers are negated or otherwise hampered even temporarily and tend to react with lethal force towards someone who can do that because even temporary revision to a normal human terrifies them). They could very easily slip into Well-Intentioned Extremist territory since they already feel non-supers have no business trying to fix things it’s not that far from that to trying to conquer the world a la the Justice Lords or Superman in Injustice: Gods Among Us because they feel the only way to fix things is remove normal human control over the world and take it for themselves.
I don’t buy the “Cecil’s meta-detection powers doesn’t work on Tyler who actually has a super-power” argument. It renders Cecil’s power moot. That’d actually mean Cecil’s ability is less unique and useful than it is in-story and from a writing perspective because it fails with certain people. At this point, how can we be sure it won’t fail with others, particularly given his involvement with The Revenant’s BAM? What’s the point?
It also detracts from the idea of supers being oblivious to to certain basic truths and logic- Cecil sees right through Moon Shadow’s costume and knows it’s Tyler. Much of his quick-thinking in the story- aside from being a huge nerd- is based on this ability, same as Tyler.
Also, while PS238 includes superhero parody in its concept, the explanation that Tyler actually has a weird power of identity obfuscation that escapes Cecil’s metahuman detection ability is really just too convoluted. It veers way too much into the history and writing we now see with mainstream superhero comics- twist upon twist upon twist, retcon upon retcon upon retcon, etc. As one, this would just be cheap writing which Aaron carefully avoids.
As for just a few, a minority, thinking that the Revenant and other non-supers should not be trying to protect the world, I doubt that as well, or else the Revenant wouldn’t be wanted in 33 states, or how the Revenant has a rep, or how PS238’s faculty is trying to keep the Revenant’s involvement with Tyler on the down-low. In short, if it was only a few people who thought the Revenant had no business in the superhero gig, it wouldn’t be a problem to begin with, and certainly not something he’d teach Moon Shadow. It’s far more likely that the Revenant is only cool with the former Union of Justice while every other hero thinks of him as a crazed vigilante.
Ultimately, the idea of people, particularly supers, not actually being oblivious- with the explanation being that Tyler has a power that Cecil cannot detect and that majority of supers are not against the Revenant- runs counter to too many basic premises at the heart of the PS238 comic.
I don’t buy the “Cecil’s meta-detection powers don’t work on Tyler who actually has a super-power” argument. It renders Cecil’s power moot. That’d actually mean Cecil’s ability is less unique and useful than it is in-story and from a writing perspective because it fails with certain people. At this point, how can we be sure it won’t fail with others, particularly given his involvement with The Revenant’s BAM? What’s the point?
It also detracts from the idea of supers being oblivious to to certain basic truths and logic- Cecil sees right through Moon Shadow’s costume and knows it’s Tyler. Much of his quick-thinking in the story- aside from being a huge nerd- is based on this ability, same as Tyler.
Also, while PS238 includes superhero parody in its concept, the explanation that Tyler actually has a weird power of identity obfuscation that escapes Cecil’s metahuman detection ability is really just too convoluted. It veers way too much into the history and writing we now see with mainstream superhero comics- twist upon twist upon twist, retcon upon retcon upon retcon, etc. As one, this would just be cheap writing which Aaron carefully avoids.
As for just a few, a minority, thinking that the Revenant and other non-supers should not be trying to protect the world, I doubt that as well, or else the Revenant wouldn’t be wanted in 33 states, or how the Revenant has a rep, or how PS238’s faculty is trying to keep the Revenant’s involvement with Tyler on the down-low. In short, if it was only a few people who thought the Revenant had no business in the superhero gig, it wouldn’t be a problem to begin with, and certainly not something he’d teach Moon Shadow. It’s far more likely that the Revenant is only cool with the former Union of Justice while every other hero thinks of him as a crazed vigilante.
Ultimately, the idea of people, particularly supers, not actually being oblivious- with the explanation being that Tyler has a power that Cecil cannot detect and that majority of supers are not against the Revenant- runs counter to too many basic premises at the heart of the PS238 comic.
Uh no, Tyler having as part of his power-set a power that prevents it being detected doesn’t even remotely make Cecil’s power moot or otherwise diminish it, there’s nothing that says any hero’s powers have to always succeed, not without it being an explicit ability and even then eventually they come across someone it doesn’t succeed on if the character lasts long enough. Telepaths don’t always succeed at reading (or controlling) minds, super-strong characters don’t always have everything they hit get smashed by it, and so on. That doesn’t even include the small matter that the RPG apparently explicitly lists Tyler with a power.
Your reasoning is also flawed there with regards to the attitudes espoused by Tyler’s parents because heroes have a disproportionate influence on society (remember the regular teacher who was so frustrated because the kids only wanted, outside of one exception, to write about a super-hero when she had her lesson regarding important people?), so even if a minority of supers held their attitude they could still easily create the kind of situation Revenant and those like him have to deal with. Considering what we have seen of him and super-heroes (and villains) in the PS238-verse your ideas of at least some of its basic premises don’t actually fit with what’s seen, so you’ve a range of heroes that don’t have problems with or otherwise accept Revenant (if only because they aren’t going to waste time on him with other actual threats around) and some like Tyler’s parents who think only supers are allowed to do anything and the authorities tend to side with them rather than end up in conflict with them (like, you know, we see with the staff at the school when they wouldn’t confront his parents over putting him in danger which would have been the logical response to parents putting their children at risk of certain death along with calling in CPS).
“Considering what we have seen of him and super-heroes (and villains) in the PS238-verse your ideas of at least some of its basic premises don’t actually fit with what’s seen…”
At this point, you’re just so honestly wrapped up with your own ideas about PS238 than what’s actually been written.
If you’re going to posit that Tyler does have powers, then all the frustration and sadness he’s gone through between him, his parents, and his actually superpowered brother becomes moot (06042012). If people failing to realize he’s Moon Shadow (identity obfuscaton) and his ability to evade the world’s first human superpower detector are indeed superpowers, then he is finally the child his parents have always wanted. He is no longer normal (03292007). He may as well tell them of all the things he’s done and finally make them proud of him (06062012). He’d no longer have to keep trying to get powers often in dangerous (05252007) or frustrating situations (2016-04-13) that he definitely doesn’t want to be in.
It also renders moot a lot of his interactions with the Revenant. The Revenant no longer has point in talking to him about how supers look at most normal people (05082009), how they treat them and what normal people can still do (10192011).
And that’s the thing. That’s one point Aaron has raised consistently throughout this comic: having power gives you a different point of view from those who don’t. People with power, as a result of living with and using their powers, whether for good or for ill, take things for granted: whether it’s loving a child who isn’t what you want them to be, or how you look at the problems of the world around you, or how you treat people.
Tyler being unrecognized as Moon Shadow ties in with the Revenant’s lessons. It’s tied together with it. It is unified with and part of it. And this theme has run through the comic since its beginning.
If your theory is true, all the times that Aaron pointed these things out was unnecessary or tangential or not really related to the characters and what they’ve been experiencing.
Quite frankly, if you want to just stick to your theory despite all that and thinking that I’m the one whose ideas don’t match with the comic book, go ahead. I’m tired of this argument at this point.
Truth be told, can’t you also see that Cecil wasn’t at all being serious about it when he suggested it (07092012)? And within your theory, if Tyler’s power prevents people from recognizing him as Moon Shadow but Cecil saw right through the disguise (08112010), then does that mean Cecil has another power that allows him to penetrate Moon Shadow’s power in the same way that you say that Tyler has a power that prevents Cecil’s meta-detection abilities from picking him up?
You’re the one wrapped up in your own views on things rather than what’s actually in the comics not me.
No all the suffering and sadness Tyler’s suffered to this point doesn’t get rendered moot if he has powers if said powers are so subtle and undetectable that for all intents and purposes he has no powers at all. He is not his parents’ dream if it’s impossible to see said powers or be sure they exist (and seriously where do you think Toby gets his reality warper powers from? From Tyler’s DNA). To all measurable ways that they have he appears as a powerless normal, much like Blink did in the Xanth series, yet he regularly manages to survive situations that should have killed him well before he got any kind of actual training in.
No, all those times Aaron brought up those points isn’t invalidated by Tyler having powers either when those powers again for all intents and purposes leave him as an otherwise normal human being. An obfuscating filter that prevents people from casually noticing he’s Moonshadow doesn’t make any of that go away because he’s still a normal human being, and you’re reading Cecil’s reaction to things when Tyler mentions it to him all wrong. Cecil’s attitude is ‘stop overthinking it and just embrace it’ for why he says ‘maybe you’ve another power that shields you from my detection power’, since it’s Cecil who suggests he’s got a power in the first place and counters with that when Tyler asks why can’t he detect him with powers then. Considering comics and science fiction in general are filled with odd power interactions and events it’s not that surprising that Tyler having a masking power in trying to mask itself from Cecil’s detection abilities can’t as a result also block him seeing through the mundane disguise, it just demonstrates a limit on Tyler’s power. The effort to block Cecil’s power prevents it from covering up anything else with him.
According to your interpretation, Tyler has superpowers. He is NOT normal and ordinary anymore. His powers, however subtle, are not undetectable as you say but even demonstrable. He not just has one power but two. He has people who can attest to the things he has done, who even have an interest in telling his parents to stop putting him in situations of danger: his teachers who worry about his safety. He has done incredible things that saved the day, indeed fulfilling his parents’ desire for him to achieve greatness!
Why haven’t they?
For that matter, why does Tyler have to be part of a lost powers therapy group if he has powers? Why does Tyler HIMSELF say to the group he DOES NOT have powers?
Furthermore, if you want to raise the argument that someone who survives all these situations must therefore have superpowers, then the Revenant must be super-powered to, by your logic.
And yet the only claim to superpowers he has is wealth- not a superpower at all.
Cecil’s attitude of “stop overthinking it and just embrace it” does NOT mean Tyler therefore has a superpower. It applies equally well to the idea that people in general, particularly supers, have an amazing ability to ignore the obvious, even when it’s in front of them.
Tyler is frustrated by that in a related manner that he’s frustrated by how his parents treat him. He would have no reason to be frustrated anymore if it was actually caused by a superpower rather than it being just the way people sadly are.
Furthermore, if your explanation about Tyler is correct, then Cecil therefore must have another superpower besides metahuman detection: the ability to pierce through Tyler’s obfuscating filter, which I cited. In positing that people not seeing that Tyler is Moon Shadow is a superpower, then you have to account for that as well.
So what’s your explanation?
Oh yeah, I just realized now: If Tyler has another superpower that prevents his detection by Cecil, why doesn’t Cecil sense that superpower? Does it conceal itself?
For that matter, the Letters to Dr. Positron part of the books mentions that certain humans have amazing abilities above and beyond their more ordinary peers but who aren’t supers- we’re talking people like top athletes. So, if they otherwise can be considered ordinary despite their abilities but Cecil gets close to them and doesn’t detect them as metahuman, therefore they too have Tyler’s superpower-concealing superpower?
All in all, all you’ve been positing are ad hoc, stop gap, unwritten explanations that just complicate things rather than stem from the comics or uphold what is has said. And I’m pretty sure you’re just to come up with more explanations to explain these away, rather than simply accept that, paraphrased:
Moon Shadow: She didn’t recognize me. No one else knows it’s me.
The Revenant: It’s amazing how people overlook the things in front of them, even if obvious.
Moon Shadow: You’re wanted by the authorities?
The Revenant: Some people think people with no powers should have no part in solving the world’s problems.
Moon Shadow: But most of the people in the world don’t have powers.
The Revenant: It’s amazing how people overlook the things in front of them, even if obvious.
“and seriously where do you think Toby gets his reality warper powers from? From Tyler’s DNA”
Actually, it didn’t.
From 07202011:
Angie: “Wull, it’s jus dat dis DNA stuff from clone-boy don’ mach up with DNA stuff from Tyler-dude, knowhuti’msayin? ‘Dere’s all dis… junk in it.”
Victor: “Yes… I’m not sure what that is, myself. They were… anomalies that kept popping up.”
If Toby’s reality warper powers came from Tyler, then there should NOT have been a mismatch.
Yeah you’re obviously strawmanning my points and ignoring what I’ve actually said and the derogatory tone you’re taking reduces what credibility you might have for your arguments otherwise.
You don’t want to accept that Tyler has powers or could have powers that’s fine, that’s your choice but being dismissive and condescending when someone points out he could and likely does have them does not leave you looking well.
Having powers does not mean you are suddenly or certain not to qualify as otherwise normal and ordinary. I already stated that an explained it. A power that is subtle or otherwise undetectable while everything else about you is normal means to all intents and purposes you ARE normal. Tyler’s part of the no-powers therapy group because as far as everyone’s concerned he doesn’t have powers (and because his parents are insane and think something’s wrong with him because he has no recognizable powers) being part of that group however by no means means you must, without a doubt, have no powers and you cannot use it as an argument to prove Tyler has no powers because it proves nothing.
To repeat myself again on the nature of his possible powers since you clearly didn’t read anything of what I actually said if it obscures his identity as Moonshadow when it come into conflict with Cecil’s metahuman detection power it manages to block his power BUT can’t also keep concealing his identity at the same time. It’s not powerful enough to do both things at once and since Cecil’s an observant person it’s obvious to him when he looks at Tyler when he’s dressed as Moonshadow.
No my logic doesn’t apply to Revenant, that’s you trying to strawman my argument. Revenant is a grown man who’s undergone decades of physical and mental training it makes sense logically that he’s as successful as he is because he’s trained for it, Tyler meanwhile is a preteen with all the physical limitations that carries with it yet has still somehow managed to survive a number of dangerous events without any training at all. Even Robin had training before he was going out with Batman and was older.
Yes Toby’s reality warper powers came from Tyler’s DNA, a result of replication issues that resulted in it not being a perfect clone and releasing the full potential of what was in Tyler’s DNA. They certainly didn’t just appear out of nowhere but you’re too invested in insisting that he can’t have anything but normal human genes without any super-powered potential to recognize or accept that.
And just to repeat myself, no you cannot apply my analysis of Tyler to Revenant because there aren’t any points of commonality beyond them both being human males that appear to have no powers. Revenant is a trained, badass normal who’s decades older than Tyler and used his funding to improve himself as far as a human can go whereas Tyler is a preteen boy of two egotistical supers with NO training to speak of until some time into having started training with Revenant and yet managed far better than he should have even without that training. So just STOP trying to apply my analysis for Tyler to Revenant because it’s not valid and the strawmannning is grating.
Let’s make it clear that you’re pretty derogatory and dismissive yourself: “Considering what we have seen of him and super-heroes (and villains) in the PS238-verse your ideas of at least some of its basic premises don’t actually fit with what’s seen…”
All you’re doing is creating ad hoc explanations to support your theory where data and logic challenge it while ignoring how your idea conflicts with the cohesiveness of the various elements of the comic while raising more and more problems. You’re going for more and more complicated explanations that require more and more explanations for their own conflicts and shortcomings- and that’s opposed to simply accepting the rather simple and straightforward premises that Aaron has presented:
Where people, particularly the superpowered, tend to overlook certain simple, obvious things, Tyler is not recognized as Moon Shadow where Tyler is the squishy un-powered child of two very powerful superheroes while Moon Shadow is a mysterious and very effective superhero. Of course, the corollary: an observant, genre-savvy people will indeed recognize him.
Whether I’m actually straw manning or not, you’re no better with your ad hoc arguments. All you’re positing are more and more stop gap possibilities that are disjointed with the whole. Now your explanation is that Tyler’s superpower had to allow itself to be revealed to Cecil in order to not trigger Cecil’s metahuman sense? So it’s not just that Tyler has identity obfuscation and metahuman detector evasion but that in particular his powers also have to choose between one or the other? And what would be the point of that be anyway since, according to you, Cecil ultimately, seriously, sincerely figured it out?
And you do realize that there’s someone else out there who figured out on his own that Tyler is Moon Shadow: Principal Alfred Cranston. Even if the clues were practically given to him, it was still a question of overlooking the obvious. Now, his telepathic and telekinetic powers are kept in check by an inhibitor. Tyler was out of the school and far into town when he figured it out (“2 + 2 = Eye Of Horus-style Revenant symbol”) so even if Cranston could use a little bit of his power despite his inhibitor, Tyler was likely well out of his range. Now, Cranston isn’t himself a metahuman detector (at least not in the same way Cecil is), are you going to tell me that Cranston also has a power that can pierce Tyler’s? Or are you going to tell me that Cranston was out of range of Tyler’s identity obfuscation power?
Oh, let me guess: you’re going to say, “See? Cranston is a metahuman and he didn’t overlook that Moon Shadow was Tyler!” But even that is not surprising given what the Revenant said. If it’s just people overlooking obvious details- human psychology rather than superpowered obfuscation- then a super who does decide to pay attention thus puts stuff together works within that premise.
Focusing on Tyler and the Revenant: you forget that Tyler didn’t start out so badass. He was- and still is- an “Action Survivor” to use TV Tropes’ terms. For the most part, his survival of his early adventures was thanks to his own common sense, quick-thinking and luck- traits that normal people have, as well as the Revenant’s forethought in keeping him safe. He makes do with that he has- and yet often enough suffers mishaps from it.
By the time he’s actually taking the initiative and getting into trouble on his own, he’s already had some experience and training (in addition to his gear which he relies greatly on). This would be around the Rainmaker storyline. Remember when he destroyed Dr. Irons’ old robotic body? He figured that out after getting stuck to a water fountain for some time with his electromagnet. He didn’t get shocked to unconsciousness by the Praetorian agents’ taser because of his boots. When the Revenant engaged said agents, all he did was spray a solvent on his parents’ glue bindings. And he certainly didn’t outfight Charles Brigman when he unintentionally formed a super-team to go after him.
As for your “releasing the full potential of what was in Tyler’s DNA” argument, to use your own phrasing and line of thought, you’re too invested in your own idea to take actually consider that even if Toby’s powers were unleashed from Tyler’s, it still means that whatever Tyler has is only POTENTIAL and NOT actual- and that likely very well makes him as normal as every other non-super person in the world. You’ve even argued that if Tyler does have powers, it’s so subtle that he’s completely and practically indistinguishable from a normal person. If so, at what point can we consider him actually super-powered? Your reasoning now may as well say that 84’s dad actually is superpowered- 84 is a FISS and just developed powers one day while her dad is related to First Strike of the Fusion Family. Her powers had to come from somewhere, right? For you to insist on Tyler definitely being superpowered despite the heavy differences in his DNA from Toby because of cloning errors is the same as saying everyone is Spider-Man, they just haven’t been bitten by a radioactive spider yet.
“Considering what we have seen of him and super-heroes (and villains) in the PS238-verse your ideas of at least some of its basic premises don’t actually fit with what’s seen…” Your explanations have logical conclusions that, besides needing more made-up-on-the-spot ideas, go well beyond “what’s [been] seen”.
So is this arc about the temptation of Tyler to seek out Power and Glory’s shop to get superpowers of his own? He is certainly getting hit hard with reminders that he doesn’t have them.
I hope not.
He gets his nose rubbed in it constantly, yes, but I’d think his experiences with supers (adults, anyway), as opposed to his experiences with the Revanant, would teach him that he’ll be a healthier, happier person doing without them. He certainly seems to understand this. He doesn’t start crying every time a metahuman treats him like a nobody; he just sort of rolls his eyes and takes it in stride. And if that wasn’t enough, he’s a more successfully kid-hero than anybody he knows in his peer group by being the cod-slammed Moonshadow.
Who needs super powers?
I agree with your points. Also, I not just hope it’s not a “Temptation of Tyler” story, but do think it’s not so. This topic was already tackled in the “creative writing” story. Tyler accepted his “place” as a non-super at the end of that given what he’s already accomplished and what he can do. And there’s also all his conversations with his mentor, the Revenant, about the obvious, little stuff supers are/have become oblivious to.
I think this is really the story of ex-supers, particularly Sarah Bartlett. And we got to meet two new independent players too in this universe. 🙂
People who want their parents’ love? (If their parents are Ultima and Sovereign Powers, anyway.) The esteem of their peers even when they aren’t wearing a football helmet? Also, don’t be a reverse racist or whatever. Being non-powered doesn’t make you inherently superior to powered people.
Tyler had better be well-adjusted by the time he grows up, otherwise he is almost certain to come up with some elaborate plan to destroy all Superpowers, or just end up in the clock tower with a rifle 🙂
Honestly, I think as savvy as the Revenant is, he probably has a psychiatrist on his payroll in case he or anybody important needs it. I mean, he’s basically Batman without the baggage, I bet he has a psych evaluation yearly to make sure he doesn’t go down into a deep dark hole.
I just realized: if this is what Necronomik, a superhero, looks like, imagine what his enemies and rogues gallery appear as. 😀
Alternatively, his supervillains could instead look the completely opposite: utterly, undeniably, sickeningly cute, or disarmingly, underwhelmingly normal.
There was a story about a world where EVERYONE has superpowers except this one poor kid. One of the people was the guy in charge of distributing power figures to fast food restaurants. There was one “chase” figure which, it turned out, there was only ONE of! The guy who came up with the idea (and was annoyed because they told him he couldn’t have a “chase” figure where there actually WASN’T one) was called The Accountant.
Does seem possible, would make sense since Tyler’s far more physically active (Toby rarely even walks anywhere) than Toby, since Toby does everything with his powers.
Wow and the abuse piles on. Chastised for not being in a costume because the ‘brother’ has to tell newcomers about Tyler? And Toby is a credit to the family. And he hears it often? For the love of. . . Some one get child services in here publicly!
…You know, I bet there isn’t yet established a “Caped” equivalent to Child Protective Services… I mean, if the first issues are anything to go by, evidently this is the first time the world has had to deal with supers having super-kids, and I bet bureaucracy hasn’t caught on to the full spectrum of implications.
PS238 is a step in the right direction, giving the caped-tykes a place to grow and socialize, but I think perhaps the Revenant is the only guy in the world right now who may have plans in place for if superheroes fail to be decent parents, let alone super-parents.
There’s no reason to think that you’d require a separate super-human version of CPS, while the first issues are really showing how they’ve simply set up education programs specifically tailored to the needs of super-powered kids (reminds me of the origins of dealing with psychics in the Talented series by Anne McCaffrey where they to set up education programs to help people recognize they’ve powers and come in for training and be registered). They just aren’t holding supers as accountable by the law as they do non-supers, since as we’ve seen there are a lot of programs tailored to giving fabulous benefits to supers provided they fill out the right paperwork and join the right groups.
Everything you have said is perfectly true, but for a slight contradiction: not being held “as accountable by the law as … non-supers” is in itself the reason to think a super CPS would be needed. Any super worth a dime would be tempted to react with force if any kind of agency at all tried to separate them from their child; then, how is a non-super supposed to hold them accountable? Only another superhuman can head off a superhuman escape from legal action, or counter-meet a violent reaction.
That’s when you call in supers who’re members of law-enforcement, just as CPS in RL has to call in the police when necessary to deal with problem parents. You don’t need a separate branch for it, particularly given how few super kids there actually are an entire agency just for CPS services just for them would be excessive. It’s not like the deal with PS238 since there were no agencies that were set up to deal with the special needs of educating super-powered kids until it came along.
It’d be a trip if Necronomik actually realized he was being rude and apologized, where all the ‘more human’ meta-humans have kept being unthinkingly rude.
I would think Toby and Tyler would have a meta connection, even if it is now a faded thing. I’m not sure those eye can see if he goes so much by smell.
I think in this situation that phrase could go either way.
Your brother is a shining example of everything your family stand for.
Your brother is good which is surprising because he’s a Powers.
Tylor likely heard the first. He likely has not been exposed to the possibility of the second one and even if he was has little exposor to the fact that people might apply it to his parents. It would likely never cross Tylors parents minds that people could use that sort of phrase against them like that even if they used that type of phrase themselves all the time.
I actually feel sorry for Toby in this one. He’s trying so hard to be supportive of Tyler and be friends with him and everyone keeps wedging it in between them that “Toby has powers and you [Tyler] don’t!”
Well as long as his parents perpetuate it that’s probably going to a problem for a long time. Until Toby showed up, there was always this expectation that Tyler was going to have powers from them and that anything else didn’t make sense. Most people don’t have the perspective of how much this hurts Tyler, he just met this guy after all who likely spends time with Tyler’s parents and use them as a go to for how they treat Toby. Toby’s probably the only person in the household who talks about Tyler because he understands the loneliness he’s going through but can’t do anything about it short of doing something drastic like for example refusing to be a hero or using his powers until his parents acknowledge Tyler completely. It might in fact come to that at some point, but Toby for the moment can’t think to do that because he still has that innate need that Tyler had for a long time to please his parents. Either this entire thing is going to come to one large arc revolving around fixing this, or it will just never be addressed directly and allowed to go about until everyone involved accepts that’s how it is (which is a realistic conclusion, sometimes it’s easier to accept people won’t fix a problem instead of trying to make them fix it).
To be fair Tyler, being a normal (relatively speaking) kid is more of a problem in his relationship with his clone than everyone else at this point. Due to Tyler’s issues because of his parents’ behavior he’s resentful of his clone and almost always cold towards him, he just can’t see that it’s not Toby’s fault he’s as he is but he’s still just enough a ‘I love my parents’ kid that he can’t really bring himself to take out his very valid and real issues on them and takes them out on Toby instead. So he’s never given his parents the ‘The Reason you Suck!’ Speech that they deserve, nor has anyone else, they tiptoe around his parents and afford them courtesies they totally do NOT deserve. They actually felt giving Tyler to a non-powered vigilante for training was easier and preferable to reading his parents the riot act and flat out tell them just what awful people they’ve been as parents.
Not in the last place because they probably know the Powers well enough to realize they would dismiss all criticism and turn it around as a sign that the critic is unbalanced and/or otherwise unworthy of them somehow.
Thing is though you never solve a problem by ignoring the source of it and the source of Tyler’s problems start and end pretty much at his parents. As stuck on themselves as they are and as warped as they view the world they do in that warped way love their child BUT nobody’s telling them not even delicately let alone as bluntly as they need that their actions are harming him and that they aren’t being good parents to him and give them some idea what correct behavior would be.
The only way I can see them listening to anyone at this point would be if they were stripped of their powers… or Tyler soundly defeated them without using any and just stepped over them on his way to correct a mistake they made. Without saying a single word to them.
I really want to see that happen, actually. That would be awesome as a future scenario when Tyler is a teenager/young adult. Although, in my opinion, I would almost prefer it if that teenaged Tyler called his parents out for their racism and terrible parenting.
Then again, if Tyler as Moonshadow were to defeat the Powers, they would probably convince themselves that Moonshadow had supernatural powers, just like all the PS238 kids did.
Yes, Tyler, you should be very proud of your brother. Especially since without you, he wouldn’t exist at all, let alone be such a “credit to the family.”
Strike that, reverse it: Toby should be grateful for Tyler. And as the proximate cause of Toby, Tyler should get credit for all the Good Things Toby has done.
By that logic, any parent whose child does something good should get credit for that child’s good-doing. So that means all credit should really go to Tyler’s parents, because they were the cause for Tyler’s existence, who was the cause for Toby’s existence. And let’s not forget who cloned Tyler: Victor Von Fogg. He should get some credit too, right?
Yes, exactly: Tyler came first, but in many peoples’ eyes (specially his parents), Toby is the special one and Tyler should bow every time he walks past
It’s not cloth, if you look back to where Toby wakes up after regrowing his brain and Tyler’s parents think he’s him they immediately take him to get a costume from the most distinguished super-tailor around. He explains that the material is actually a nanotech material that can be easily manipulated and reshaped simply by sending the right signal which Toby has no problems doing. So it’s really a semi-alive material and has no problems clinging to skin (a must have for the super-females although I don’t remember any that had the ‘barely a two-piece swimsuit’ for a costume so far, they all from what I remember actually have full coverage costumes like the males).
I don’t know. The disguise works on everyone but Cecil and he is shocked no one can tell. Including the teachers who sent him for training. It may be that the purposes of costumes in this reality is to make a ‘Somebody Else’s Problem’ field.
Pretty sure the teachers know who Moonshadow is, they just play along. Revenant is a friend of theirs after all, and know that secrecy is paramount, especially for a non-powered vigilante who, because he isn’t privileged superpowered royalty, is not allowed to be doing any super heroing. So they keep it quiet and play along with the myth.
The amount of grief Tyler gets on a daily basis (and that just from his parents!), it’s full credit to him he hasn’t gone the way of Syndrome and become an evil hero-killer
Comes from being a relatively well-balanced person emotionally along with his exposure to better examples at the school, Syndrome wasn’t very well balanced to begin with as a kid and went off the deep end when rejected and after failing to see the events that day in there entirety including Mr. Incredible saving his life from the bomb he was too oblivious about to notice. If he’d been better balanced he’d have been going ‘oh thank you for saving my life!’.
When that time out shows up, simply copy the message, refresh the page and paste the message (this is the only site that uses a timed Captcha system have personally come across)
Very, very interesting concept and design for a character. A Lovecraftian superhero? I like. The multiple glowing eyes from under a hood and shaking of hands by cape is a nice touch.
I wonder how he’d get along with Malphast.
I like the reference to the Necronomicon from Evil Dead as well. The tentacled cape is interesting.
Er… H.P. Lovecraft created the Necronomicon in the 1920s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necronomicon . The Evil Dead was quoting him.
Shhh… It’s okay, just let the ignorance wash over you.
army of darkness was better anyway
Ffft! Next you’ll be telling me that the phrase “Klaatu barada nikto” wasn’t originated by Army of Darkness! 🙂
All those eyes might be more a Ningauble of the Seven Eyes thing.
Leiber collaborated with both Howard and Lovecraft, and the Elder Gods were indeed linked to Ningauble.
And Tyler doesn’t even blink an eye over it.
Have you read the early parts of the comic? This is far from the strangest thing he’s seen.
Though he does have a deer in the headlights look on his face in panel 2.
Cecil too. I’m imagining all three coats getting together for some snacks and movie night, gossiping about their occupants.
I’d like to see two cloaks shake ‘hands’.
Need to introduce him to invisible boy.
Eeeehhh… I wouldn’t touch that guy unless I was wearing a hazmat suit bedecked with holy symbols and the elder sign, Tyler. If then.
And maybe Necronomik agrees with you. He’s quite considerate, making sure not to touch the sane mortals directly, and instead using his prehensile cape as a safer proxy limb.
Well, just because one is a metahuman drawing from the same mind-blasting cosmic obscenity that fuels the Elder Gods, one doesn’t actually have to be RUDE.
Actually, it does. Because it is called “safety first”.
Tyler’s day just keeps getting worse.
Maybe not worse, just weirder.
Weird isn’t necessarily bad. Necronomik seems quite nice, actually.
“souls smell so much alike”
Yes, Toby is a clone of Tyler, but the amount of magic, tech, and other general super crap that went into actually giving Toby a soul makes me wonder how the heck they can be anything alike. Also, “smell”? Someone rap that dog on his noses.
Toby does share some of Tyler’s quick-thinking and sadness, IIRC, as seen from the time the forces of Order and Chaos were trying to directly take over our motal world (I have to check). He came up with part of the solution (with Tyler providing the other part). At the same time, sure, Toby gets all the adoration of their parents to Tyler’s sorrow, but Toby doesn’t have one thing: a best friend (Cecil).
Of course, we have to take note of how even Toby hasn’t/can’t make the connection between Tyler and Moon Shadow. That seems to imply that having superpowers skews your perception of reality to the point of failing to see some of the most obvious things.
Unless Tyler’s super power is obfuscation. Sort of like bink.
Why do so many people seem obsessed with the idea that Tyler must secretly have powers after all? Why can’t he really be a normal boy? You’re all as bad as his parents.
I think, mostly because, a “normal boy” wouldn’t last five minutes with Tyler’s parents.
From the looks of things Toby has all of Tyler’s memories EXCEPT those related to the Revenant and his adventures prior to the creation of the clone (since it’d hardly be useful having the clone be a blank slate as he’d be a drooling infant). So no surprise that their souls seem so identical, being as they’re basically even more identical than identical twins since even identical twins don’t have shared identical memories.
There’s also no reason to think super-powers cause such kinds of obliviousness, it’s far more plausible that it’s Tyler who unconsciously creates that kind of effect than super-powers causing everyone who has them to be clueless regarding his secret. Cecil just sees through it because of his own powers since along with his ability to sense meta-humans he’s also seems to have a potentially super-human ability to pick up on clues and develop fairly accurate conclusions from them. Then again it’s possible that such cluelessness is normal to humans with or without powers in the PS238verse and people like Revenant, Tyler, and Cecil are exceptions.
Cecil doesn’t detect any superpowers in Tyler. If we assume your theory is correct (“it’s far more plausible that it’s Tyler who unconsciously creates that kind of effect than super-powers causing everyone who has them to be clueless regarding his secret”), then this has to be a mundane, non-super effect. Therefore, it would be just like how people can be so surprised or incredulous when a superhero’s alter ego- and its stark difference with their heroic persona- is revealed to them. For example, there are stories where Batman was revealed to be Bruce Wayne, but the people who find out reject the revelation because Bruce is a rich idiot with no day job and a playboy. Same thing with Superman- people can’t believe that milquetoast Clark Kent- a mix of big galoot, nerd, country bumpkin from Kanas- could be the mighty Man of Steel.
The thing is that this obliviousness isn’t just about Tyler/Moon Shadow. It also applies to the belief of some supers that non-powered heroes, such as the Revenant, have no business trying to help others. More greatly, the Revenant points out that some superheroes believe that ordinary people have no place in solving mankind’s problems- even if those problems mainly belong to ordinary people and not to metas. As the Revenant puts it, “It’s amazing what people will overlook, even when it’s right in front of them, isn’t it?” (05082009)
If you take that and go back to Tyler, then it paints a pretty sad picture of his parents while making you wonder what other supers are like that.
Cecil’s inability to detect super-powers in Tyler doesn’t mean he doesn’t have any, only that Tyler appears normal to Cecil’s power-detecting power. As Cecil himself even points out Tyler could have more than one power or the power could among other thing mask itself from Cecil’s power (at which point it might then explain while Cecil has no problems seeing through Tyler’s disguise since the power is too busy masking to conceal as well).
As far as the attitudes of supers towards non-supers go, we’ve seen a small sampling of adult supers so far with a range of personalities, it’s not surprising you’d have super-supremacists who look down on non-supers but it’s possible Tyler’s parents are the minority opinion but hold a large minority share. Yes it is a sad picture when you look at his parents along with those who think like them. They relate normally to other supers but are losing touch with the human condition (which is why as Revenant noted they panic when their powers are negated or otherwise hampered even temporarily and tend to react with lethal force towards someone who can do that because even temporary revision to a normal human terrifies them). They could very easily slip into Well-Intentioned Extremist territory since they already feel non-supers have no business trying to fix things it’s not that far from that to trying to conquer the world a la the Justice Lords or Superman in Injustice: Gods Among Us because they feel the only way to fix things is remove normal human control over the world and take it for themselves.
I don’t buy the “Cecil’s meta-detection powers doesn’t work on Tyler who actually has a super-power” argument. It renders Cecil’s power moot. That’d actually mean Cecil’s ability is less unique and useful than it is in-story and from a writing perspective because it fails with certain people. At this point, how can we be sure it won’t fail with others, particularly given his involvement with The Revenant’s BAM? What’s the point?
It also detracts from the idea of supers being oblivious to to certain basic truths and logic- Cecil sees right through Moon Shadow’s costume and knows it’s Tyler. Much of his quick-thinking in the story- aside from being a huge nerd- is based on this ability, same as Tyler.
Also, while PS238 includes superhero parody in its concept, the explanation that Tyler actually has a weird power of identity obfuscation that escapes Cecil’s metahuman detection ability is really just too convoluted. It veers way too much into the history and writing we now see with mainstream superhero comics- twist upon twist upon twist, retcon upon retcon upon retcon, etc. As one, this would just be cheap writing which Aaron carefully avoids.
As for just a few, a minority, thinking that the Revenant and other non-supers should not be trying to protect the world, I doubt that as well, or else the Revenant wouldn’t be wanted in 33 states, or how the Revenant has a rep, or how PS238’s faculty is trying to keep the Revenant’s involvement with Tyler on the down-low. In short, if it was only a few people who thought the Revenant had no business in the superhero gig, it wouldn’t be a problem to begin with, and certainly not something he’d teach Moon Shadow. It’s far more likely that the Revenant is only cool with the former Union of Justice while every other hero thinks of him as a crazed vigilante.
Ultimately, the idea of people, particularly supers, not actually being oblivious- with the explanation being that Tyler has a power that Cecil cannot detect and that majority of supers are not against the Revenant- runs counter to too many basic premises at the heart of the PS238 comic.
I don’t buy the “Cecil’s meta-detection powers don’t work on Tyler who actually has a super-power” argument. It renders Cecil’s power moot. That’d actually mean Cecil’s ability is less unique and useful than it is in-story and from a writing perspective because it fails with certain people. At this point, how can we be sure it won’t fail with others, particularly given his involvement with The Revenant’s BAM? What’s the point?
It also detracts from the idea of supers being oblivious to to certain basic truths and logic- Cecil sees right through Moon Shadow’s costume and knows it’s Tyler. Much of his quick-thinking in the story- aside from being a huge nerd- is based on this ability, same as Tyler.
Also, while PS238 includes superhero parody in its concept, the explanation that Tyler actually has a weird power of identity obfuscation that escapes Cecil’s metahuman detection ability is really just too convoluted. It veers way too much into the history and writing we now see with mainstream superhero comics- twist upon twist upon twist, retcon upon retcon upon retcon, etc. As one, this would just be cheap writing which Aaron carefully avoids.
As for just a few, a minority, thinking that the Revenant and other non-supers should not be trying to protect the world, I doubt that as well, or else the Revenant wouldn’t be wanted in 33 states, or how the Revenant has a rep, or how PS238’s faculty is trying to keep the Revenant’s involvement with Tyler on the down-low. In short, if it was only a few people who thought the Revenant had no business in the superhero gig, it wouldn’t be a problem to begin with, and certainly not something he’d teach Moon Shadow. It’s far more likely that the Revenant is only cool with the former Union of Justice while every other hero thinks of him as a crazed vigilante.
Ultimately, the idea of people, particularly supers, not actually being oblivious- with the explanation being that Tyler has a power that Cecil cannot detect and that majority of supers are not against the Revenant- runs counter to too many basic premises at the heart of the PS238 comic.
Sorry for the double-post.
Uh no, Tyler having as part of his power-set a power that prevents it being detected doesn’t even remotely make Cecil’s power moot or otherwise diminish it, there’s nothing that says any hero’s powers have to always succeed, not without it being an explicit ability and even then eventually they come across someone it doesn’t succeed on if the character lasts long enough. Telepaths don’t always succeed at reading (or controlling) minds, super-strong characters don’t always have everything they hit get smashed by it, and so on. That doesn’t even include the small matter that the RPG apparently explicitly lists Tyler with a power.
Your reasoning is also flawed there with regards to the attitudes espoused by Tyler’s parents because heroes have a disproportionate influence on society (remember the regular teacher who was so frustrated because the kids only wanted, outside of one exception, to write about a super-hero when she had her lesson regarding important people?), so even if a minority of supers held their attitude they could still easily create the kind of situation Revenant and those like him have to deal with. Considering what we have seen of him and super-heroes (and villains) in the PS238-verse your ideas of at least some of its basic premises don’t actually fit with what’s seen, so you’ve a range of heroes that don’t have problems with or otherwise accept Revenant (if only because they aren’t going to waste time on him with other actual threats around) and some like Tyler’s parents who think only supers are allowed to do anything and the authorities tend to side with them rather than end up in conflict with them (like, you know, we see with the staff at the school when they wouldn’t confront his parents over putting him in danger which would have been the logical response to parents putting their children at risk of certain death along with calling in CPS).
“Considering what we have seen of him and super-heroes (and villains) in the PS238-verse your ideas of at least some of its basic premises don’t actually fit with what’s seen…”
At this point, you’re just so honestly wrapped up with your own ideas about PS238 than what’s actually been written.
If you’re going to posit that Tyler does have powers, then all the frustration and sadness he’s gone through between him, his parents, and his actually superpowered brother becomes moot (06042012). If people failing to realize he’s Moon Shadow (identity obfuscaton) and his ability to evade the world’s first human superpower detector are indeed superpowers, then he is finally the child his parents have always wanted. He is no longer normal (03292007). He may as well tell them of all the things he’s done and finally make them proud of him (06062012). He’d no longer have to keep trying to get powers often in dangerous (05252007) or frustrating situations (2016-04-13) that he definitely doesn’t want to be in.
It also renders moot a lot of his interactions with the Revenant. The Revenant no longer has point in talking to him about how supers look at most normal people (05082009), how they treat them and what normal people can still do (10192011).
And that’s the thing. That’s one point Aaron has raised consistently throughout this comic: having power gives you a different point of view from those who don’t. People with power, as a result of living with and using their powers, whether for good or for ill, take things for granted: whether it’s loving a child who isn’t what you want them to be, or how you look at the problems of the world around you, or how you treat people.
Tyler being unrecognized as Moon Shadow ties in with the Revenant’s lessons. It’s tied together with it. It is unified with and part of it. And this theme has run through the comic since its beginning.
If your theory is true, all the times that Aaron pointed these things out was unnecessary or tangential or not really related to the characters and what they’ve been experiencing.
Quite frankly, if you want to just stick to your theory despite all that and thinking that I’m the one whose ideas don’t match with the comic book, go ahead. I’m tired of this argument at this point.
Truth be told, can’t you also see that Cecil wasn’t at all being serious about it when he suggested it (07092012)? And within your theory, if Tyler’s power prevents people from recognizing him as Moon Shadow but Cecil saw right through the disguise (08112010), then does that mean Cecil has another power that allows him to penetrate Moon Shadow’s power in the same way that you say that Tyler has a power that prevents Cecil’s meta-detection abilities from picking him up?
You’re the one wrapped up in your own views on things rather than what’s actually in the comics not me.
No all the suffering and sadness Tyler’s suffered to this point doesn’t get rendered moot if he has powers if said powers are so subtle and undetectable that for all intents and purposes he has no powers at all. He is not his parents’ dream if it’s impossible to see said powers or be sure they exist (and seriously where do you think Toby gets his reality warper powers from? From Tyler’s DNA). To all measurable ways that they have he appears as a powerless normal, much like Blink did in the Xanth series, yet he regularly manages to survive situations that should have killed him well before he got any kind of actual training in.
No, all those times Aaron brought up those points isn’t invalidated by Tyler having powers either when those powers again for all intents and purposes leave him as an otherwise normal human being. An obfuscating filter that prevents people from casually noticing he’s Moonshadow doesn’t make any of that go away because he’s still a normal human being, and you’re reading Cecil’s reaction to things when Tyler mentions it to him all wrong. Cecil’s attitude is ‘stop overthinking it and just embrace it’ for why he says ‘maybe you’ve another power that shields you from my detection power’, since it’s Cecil who suggests he’s got a power in the first place and counters with that when Tyler asks why can’t he detect him with powers then. Considering comics and science fiction in general are filled with odd power interactions and events it’s not that surprising that Tyler having a masking power in trying to mask itself from Cecil’s detection abilities can’t as a result also block him seeing through the mundane disguise, it just demonstrates a limit on Tyler’s power. The effort to block Cecil’s power prevents it from covering up anything else with him.
According to your interpretation, Tyler has superpowers. He is NOT normal and ordinary anymore. His powers, however subtle, are not undetectable as you say but even demonstrable. He not just has one power but two. He has people who can attest to the things he has done, who even have an interest in telling his parents to stop putting him in situations of danger: his teachers who worry about his safety. He has done incredible things that saved the day, indeed fulfilling his parents’ desire for him to achieve greatness!
Why haven’t they?
For that matter, why does Tyler have to be part of a lost powers therapy group if he has powers? Why does Tyler HIMSELF say to the group he DOES NOT have powers?
Furthermore, if you want to raise the argument that someone who survives all these situations must therefore have superpowers, then the Revenant must be super-powered to, by your logic.
And yet the only claim to superpowers he has is wealth- not a superpower at all.
Cecil’s attitude of “stop overthinking it and just embrace it” does NOT mean Tyler therefore has a superpower. It applies equally well to the idea that people in general, particularly supers, have an amazing ability to ignore the obvious, even when it’s in front of them.
Tyler is frustrated by that in a related manner that he’s frustrated by how his parents treat him. He would have no reason to be frustrated anymore if it was actually caused by a superpower rather than it being just the way people sadly are.
Furthermore, if your explanation about Tyler is correct, then Cecil therefore must have another superpower besides metahuman detection: the ability to pierce through Tyler’s obfuscating filter, which I cited. In positing that people not seeing that Tyler is Moon Shadow is a superpower, then you have to account for that as well.
So what’s your explanation?
Oh yeah, I just realized now: If Tyler has another superpower that prevents his detection by Cecil, why doesn’t Cecil sense that superpower? Does it conceal itself?
For that matter, the Letters to Dr. Positron part of the books mentions that certain humans have amazing abilities above and beyond their more ordinary peers but who aren’t supers- we’re talking people like top athletes. So, if they otherwise can be considered ordinary despite their abilities but Cecil gets close to them and doesn’t detect them as metahuman, therefore they too have Tyler’s superpower-concealing superpower?
All in all, all you’ve been positing are ad hoc, stop gap, unwritten explanations that just complicate things rather than stem from the comics or uphold what is has said. And I’m pretty sure you’re just to come up with more explanations to explain these away, rather than simply accept that, paraphrased:
Moon Shadow: She didn’t recognize me. No one else knows it’s me.
The Revenant: It’s amazing how people overlook the things in front of them, even if obvious.
Moon Shadow: You’re wanted by the authorities?
The Revenant: Some people think people with no powers should have no part in solving the world’s problems.
Moon Shadow: But most of the people in the world don’t have powers.
The Revenant: It’s amazing how people overlook the things in front of them, even if obvious.
“and seriously where do you think Toby gets his reality warper powers from? From Tyler’s DNA”
Actually, it didn’t.
From 07202011:
Angie: “Wull, it’s jus dat dis DNA stuff from clone-boy don’ mach up with DNA stuff from Tyler-dude, knowhuti’msayin? ‘Dere’s all dis… junk in it.”
Victor: “Yes… I’m not sure what that is, myself. They were… anomalies that kept popping up.”
If Toby’s reality warper powers came from Tyler, then there should NOT have been a mismatch.
Heh, I wonder if according to your theory (09122011):
Kent Allard: “So… am I an alien?”
Cecil: “What? No, Director- er, I mean, Mr. Allard. You’re no alien!”
So I guess the Revenant actually has superpowers but also has a secondary power that conceals them from Cecil? 😀
Yeah you’re obviously strawmanning my points and ignoring what I’ve actually said and the derogatory tone you’re taking reduces what credibility you might have for your arguments otherwise.
You don’t want to accept that Tyler has powers or could have powers that’s fine, that’s your choice but being dismissive and condescending when someone points out he could and likely does have them does not leave you looking well.
Having powers does not mean you are suddenly or certain not to qualify as otherwise normal and ordinary. I already stated that an explained it. A power that is subtle or otherwise undetectable while everything else about you is normal means to all intents and purposes you ARE normal. Tyler’s part of the no-powers therapy group because as far as everyone’s concerned he doesn’t have powers (and because his parents are insane and think something’s wrong with him because he has no recognizable powers) being part of that group however by no means means you must, without a doubt, have no powers and you cannot use it as an argument to prove Tyler has no powers because it proves nothing.
To repeat myself again on the nature of his possible powers since you clearly didn’t read anything of what I actually said if it obscures his identity as Moonshadow when it come into conflict with Cecil’s metahuman detection power it manages to block his power BUT can’t also keep concealing his identity at the same time. It’s not powerful enough to do both things at once and since Cecil’s an observant person it’s obvious to him when he looks at Tyler when he’s dressed as Moonshadow.
No my logic doesn’t apply to Revenant, that’s you trying to strawman my argument. Revenant is a grown man who’s undergone decades of physical and mental training it makes sense logically that he’s as successful as he is because he’s trained for it, Tyler meanwhile is a preteen with all the physical limitations that carries with it yet has still somehow managed to survive a number of dangerous events without any training at all. Even Robin had training before he was going out with Batman and was older.
Yes Toby’s reality warper powers came from Tyler’s DNA, a result of replication issues that resulted in it not being a perfect clone and releasing the full potential of what was in Tyler’s DNA. They certainly didn’t just appear out of nowhere but you’re too invested in insisting that he can’t have anything but normal human genes without any super-powered potential to recognize or accept that.
And just to repeat myself, no you cannot apply my analysis of Tyler to Revenant because there aren’t any points of commonality beyond them both being human males that appear to have no powers. Revenant is a trained, badass normal who’s decades older than Tyler and used his funding to improve himself as far as a human can go whereas Tyler is a preteen boy of two egotistical supers with NO training to speak of until some time into having started training with Revenant and yet managed far better than he should have even without that training. So just STOP trying to apply my analysis for Tyler to Revenant because it’s not valid and the strawmannning is grating.
Let’s make it clear that you’re pretty derogatory and dismissive yourself: “Considering what we have seen of him and super-heroes (and villains) in the PS238-verse your ideas of at least some of its basic premises don’t actually fit with what’s seen…”
All you’re doing is creating ad hoc explanations to support your theory where data and logic challenge it while ignoring how your idea conflicts with the cohesiveness of the various elements of the comic while raising more and more problems. You’re going for more and more complicated explanations that require more and more explanations for their own conflicts and shortcomings- and that’s opposed to simply accepting the rather simple and straightforward premises that Aaron has presented:
Where people, particularly the superpowered, tend to overlook certain simple, obvious things, Tyler is not recognized as Moon Shadow where Tyler is the squishy un-powered child of two very powerful superheroes while Moon Shadow is a mysterious and very effective superhero. Of course, the corollary: an observant, genre-savvy people will indeed recognize him.
Whether I’m actually straw manning or not, you’re no better with your ad hoc arguments. All you’re positing are more and more stop gap possibilities that are disjointed with the whole. Now your explanation is that Tyler’s superpower had to allow itself to be revealed to Cecil in order to not trigger Cecil’s metahuman sense? So it’s not just that Tyler has identity obfuscation and metahuman detector evasion but that in particular his powers also have to choose between one or the other? And what would be the point of that be anyway since, according to you, Cecil ultimately, seriously, sincerely figured it out?
And you do realize that there’s someone else out there who figured out on his own that Tyler is Moon Shadow: Principal Alfred Cranston. Even if the clues were practically given to him, it was still a question of overlooking the obvious. Now, his telepathic and telekinetic powers are kept in check by an inhibitor. Tyler was out of the school and far into town when he figured it out (“2 + 2 = Eye Of Horus-style Revenant symbol”) so even if Cranston could use a little bit of his power despite his inhibitor, Tyler was likely well out of his range. Now, Cranston isn’t himself a metahuman detector (at least not in the same way Cecil is), are you going to tell me that Cranston also has a power that can pierce Tyler’s? Or are you going to tell me that Cranston was out of range of Tyler’s identity obfuscation power?
Oh, let me guess: you’re going to say, “See? Cranston is a metahuman and he didn’t overlook that Moon Shadow was Tyler!” But even that is not surprising given what the Revenant said. If it’s just people overlooking obvious details- human psychology rather than superpowered obfuscation- then a super who does decide to pay attention thus puts stuff together works within that premise.
Focusing on Tyler and the Revenant: you forget that Tyler didn’t start out so badass. He was- and still is- an “Action Survivor” to use TV Tropes’ terms. For the most part, his survival of his early adventures was thanks to his own common sense, quick-thinking and luck- traits that normal people have, as well as the Revenant’s forethought in keeping him safe. He makes do with that he has- and yet often enough suffers mishaps from it.
By the time he’s actually taking the initiative and getting into trouble on his own, he’s already had some experience and training (in addition to his gear which he relies greatly on). This would be around the Rainmaker storyline. Remember when he destroyed Dr. Irons’ old robotic body? He figured that out after getting stuck to a water fountain for some time with his electromagnet. He didn’t get shocked to unconsciousness by the Praetorian agents’ taser because of his boots. When the Revenant engaged said agents, all he did was spray a solvent on his parents’ glue bindings. And he certainly didn’t outfight Charles Brigman when he unintentionally formed a super-team to go after him.
As for your “releasing the full potential of what was in Tyler’s DNA” argument, to use your own phrasing and line of thought, you’re too invested in your own idea to take actually consider that even if Toby’s powers were unleashed from Tyler’s, it still means that whatever Tyler has is only POTENTIAL and NOT actual- and that likely very well makes him as normal as every other non-super person in the world. You’ve even argued that if Tyler does have powers, it’s so subtle that he’s completely and practically indistinguishable from a normal person. If so, at what point can we consider him actually super-powered? Your reasoning now may as well say that 84’s dad actually is superpowered- 84 is a FISS and just developed powers one day while her dad is related to First Strike of the Fusion Family. Her powers had to come from somewhere, right? For you to insist on Tyler definitely being superpowered despite the heavy differences in his DNA from Toby because of cloning errors is the same as saying everyone is Spider-Man, they just haven’t been bitten by a radioactive spider yet.
“Considering what we have seen of him and super-heroes (and villains) in the PS238-verse your ideas of at least some of its basic premises don’t actually fit with what’s seen…” Your explanations have logical conclusions that, besides needing more made-up-on-the-spot ideas, go well beyond “what’s [been] seen”.
So is this arc about the temptation of Tyler to seek out Power and Glory’s shop to get superpowers of his own? He is certainly getting hit hard with reminders that he doesn’t have them.
I hope not.
He gets his nose rubbed in it constantly, yes, but I’d think his experiences with supers (adults, anyway), as opposed to his experiences with the Revanant, would teach him that he’ll be a healthier, happier person doing without them. He certainly seems to understand this. He doesn’t start crying every time a metahuman treats him like a nobody; he just sort of rolls his eyes and takes it in stride. And if that wasn’t enough, he’s a more successfully kid-hero than anybody he knows in his peer group by being the cod-slammed Moonshadow.
Who needs super powers?
I agree with your points. Also, I not just hope it’s not a “Temptation of Tyler” story, but do think it’s not so. This topic was already tackled in the “creative writing” story. Tyler accepted his “place” as a non-super at the end of that given what he’s already accomplished and what he can do. And there’s also all his conversations with his mentor, the Revenant, about the obvious, little stuff supers are/have become oblivious to.
I think this is really the story of ex-supers, particularly Sarah Bartlett. And we got to meet two new independent players too in this universe. 🙂
People who want their parents’ love? (If their parents are Ultima and Sovereign Powers, anyway.) The esteem of their peers even when they aren’t wearing a football helmet? Also, don’t be a reverse racist or whatever. Being non-powered doesn’t make you inherently superior to powered people.
Wow. This guy must be powerful. He’s got a LOT more eyes than Ningauble.
And waaaay More than Sheelba.
Tyler had better be well-adjusted by the time he grows up, otherwise he is almost certain to come up with some elaborate plan to destroy all Superpowers, or just end up in the clock tower with a rifle 🙂
Honestly, I think as savvy as the Revenant is, he probably has a psychiatrist on his payroll in case he or anybody important needs it. I mean, he’s basically Batman without the baggage, I bet he has a psych evaluation yearly to make sure he doesn’t go down into a deep dark hole.
keep in mind, he could have done that with literally a word
Exactly, he was already given the power to unstoppably prevent any new supers from coming into being and chose not to.
The many-eyed horror follows the convention of having the eyes change shape based on the emotion behind them.
I noticed. It’s a really nice touch! 🙂
I just realized: if this is what Necronomik, a superhero, looks like, imagine what his enemies and rogues gallery appear as. 😀
Alternatively, his supervillains could instead look the completely opposite: utterly, undeniably, sickeningly cute, or disarmingly, underwhelmingly normal.
Actually I would see his Rogue’s Gallery sort of like David Xanatos or someone else who has his charisma.
“They call me… the Accountant.”
There was a story about a world where EVERYONE has superpowers except this one poor kid. One of the people was the guy in charge of distributing power figures to fast food restaurants. There was one “chase” figure which, it turned out, there was only ONE of! The guy who came up with the idea (and was annoyed because they told him he couldn’t have a “chase” figure where there actually WASN’T one) was called The Accountant.
https://www.target.com/p/the-extraordinary-adventures-of-ordinary-boy-book-1-the-hero-revealed-by-william-boniface/-/A-11743610?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=bing_pla_df&CPNG=PLA_Entertainment%2BShopping&adgroup=SC_Entertainment&LID=700000001230728pbs&network=s&device=c&querystring=adventures%20of%20ordinary%20boy&msclkid=da58a5b741421aa24341f8c9f21d895d&gclid=CJ7AkOjo0-QCFQPiswodibAD6Q&gclsrc=ds
Anyone else notice that Tyler is a little better physically defined than Toby or is it just me?
Does seem possible, would make sense since Tyler’s far more physically active (Toby rarely even walks anywhere) than Toby, since Toby does everything with his powers.
Please be a happy ending for Tyler, Please be a happy ending for Tyler, Please be a happy ending for Tyler
Wow and the abuse piles on. Chastised for not being in a costume because the ‘brother’ has to tell newcomers about Tyler? And Toby is a credit to the family. And he hears it often? For the love of. . . Some one get child services in here publicly!
*quiet thinking*
…You know, I bet there isn’t yet established a “Caped” equivalent to Child Protective Services… I mean, if the first issues are anything to go by, evidently this is the first time the world has had to deal with supers having super-kids, and I bet bureaucracy hasn’t caught on to the full spectrum of implications.
PS238 is a step in the right direction, giving the caped-tykes a place to grow and socialize, but I think perhaps the Revenant is the only guy in the world right now who may have plans in place for if superheroes fail to be decent parents, let alone super-parents.
There’s no reason to think that you’d require a separate super-human version of CPS, while the first issues are really showing how they’ve simply set up education programs specifically tailored to the needs of super-powered kids (reminds me of the origins of dealing with psychics in the Talented series by Anne McCaffrey where they to set up education programs to help people recognize they’ve powers and come in for training and be registered). They just aren’t holding supers as accountable by the law as they do non-supers, since as we’ve seen there are a lot of programs tailored to giving fabulous benefits to supers provided they fill out the right paperwork and join the right groups.
Everything you have said is perfectly true, but for a slight contradiction: not being held “as accountable by the law as … non-supers” is in itself the reason to think a super CPS would be needed. Any super worth a dime would be tempted to react with force if any kind of agency at all tried to separate them from their child; then, how is a non-super supposed to hold them accountable? Only another superhuman can head off a superhuman escape from legal action, or counter-meet a violent reaction.
That’s when you call in supers who’re members of law-enforcement, just as CPS in RL has to call in the police when necessary to deal with problem parents. You don’t need a separate branch for it, particularly given how few super kids there actually are an entire agency just for CPS services just for them would be excessive. It’s not like the deal with PS238 since there were no agencies that were set up to deal with the special needs of educating super-powered kids until it came along.
Is it wrong i want to ship Cecil’s coat and Necronomik’s cape?
What if thier costumes had kids. Strange under-roos.?
It’d be a trip if Necronomik actually realized he was being rude and apologized, where all the ‘more human’ meta-humans have kept being unthinkingly rude.
I would think Toby and Tyler would have a meta connection, even if it is now a faded thing. I’m not sure those eye can see if he goes so much by smell.
“Your sibling is a Credit to Your Family” is this a subtle diss to the Powers/Marloke family with a “You Are a Credit to Your Race” thing?
I think in this situation that phrase could go either way.
Your brother is a shining example of everything your family stand for.
Your brother is good which is surprising because he’s a Powers.
Tylor likely heard the first. He likely has not been exposed to the possibility of the second one and even if he was has little exposor to the fact that people might apply it to his parents. It would likely never cross Tylors parents minds that people could use that sort of phrase against them like that even if they used that type of phrase themselves all the time.
I actually feel sorry for Toby in this one. He’s trying so hard to be supportive of Tyler and be friends with him and everyone keeps wedging it in between them that “Toby has powers and you [Tyler] don’t!”
Well as long as his parents perpetuate it that’s probably going to a problem for a long time. Until Toby showed up, there was always this expectation that Tyler was going to have powers from them and that anything else didn’t make sense. Most people don’t have the perspective of how much this hurts Tyler, he just met this guy after all who likely spends time with Tyler’s parents and use them as a go to for how they treat Toby. Toby’s probably the only person in the household who talks about Tyler because he understands the loneliness he’s going through but can’t do anything about it short of doing something drastic like for example refusing to be a hero or using his powers until his parents acknowledge Tyler completely. It might in fact come to that at some point, but Toby for the moment can’t think to do that because he still has that innate need that Tyler had for a long time to please his parents. Either this entire thing is going to come to one large arc revolving around fixing this, or it will just never be addressed directly and allowed to go about until everyone involved accepts that’s how it is (which is a realistic conclusion, sometimes it’s easier to accept people won’t fix a problem instead of trying to make them fix it).
To be fair Tyler, being a normal (relatively speaking) kid is more of a problem in his relationship with his clone than everyone else at this point. Due to Tyler’s issues because of his parents’ behavior he’s resentful of his clone and almost always cold towards him, he just can’t see that it’s not Toby’s fault he’s as he is but he’s still just enough a ‘I love my parents’ kid that he can’t really bring himself to take out his very valid and real issues on them and takes them out on Toby instead. So he’s never given his parents the ‘The Reason you Suck!’ Speech that they deserve, nor has anyone else, they tiptoe around his parents and afford them courtesies they totally do NOT deserve. They actually felt giving Tyler to a non-powered vigilante for training was easier and preferable to reading his parents the riot act and flat out tell them just what awful people they’ve been as parents.
Not in the last place because they probably know the Powers well enough to realize they would dismiss all criticism and turn it around as a sign that the critic is unbalanced and/or otherwise unworthy of them somehow.
Thing is though you never solve a problem by ignoring the source of it and the source of Tyler’s problems start and end pretty much at his parents. As stuck on themselves as they are and as warped as they view the world they do in that warped way love their child BUT nobody’s telling them not even delicately let alone as bluntly as they need that their actions are harming him and that they aren’t being good parents to him and give them some idea what correct behavior would be.
The only way I can see them listening to anyone at this point would be if they were stripped of their powers… or Tyler soundly defeated them without using any and just stepped over them on his way to correct a mistake they made. Without saying a single word to them.
I really want to see that happen, actually. That would be awesome as a future scenario when Tyler is a teenager/young adult. Although, in my opinion, I would almost prefer it if that teenaged Tyler called his parents out for their racism and terrible parenting.
Then again, if Tyler as Moonshadow were to defeat the Powers, they would probably convince themselves that Moonshadow had supernatural powers, just like all the PS238 kids did.
Yes, Tyler, you should be very proud of your brother. Especially since without you, he wouldn’t exist at all, let alone be such a “credit to the family.”
So, not only does he have to be proud of Toby, he has to be grateful for having him around as well? o_O
Strike that, reverse it: Toby should be grateful for Tyler. And as the proximate cause of Toby, Tyler should get credit for all the Good Things Toby has done.
By that logic, any parent whose child does something good should get credit for that child’s good-doing. So that means all credit should really go to Tyler’s parents, because they were the cause for Tyler’s existence, who was the cause for Toby’s existence. And let’s not forget who cloned Tyler: Victor Von Fogg. He should get some credit too, right?
Yes, exactly: Tyler came first, but in many peoples’ eyes (specially his parents), Toby is the special one and Tyler should bow every time he walks past
I still can’t fathom how that headpiece stays on Toby unless it’s glued on. Cloth doesn’t do what that thing is doing.
It’s not cloth, if you look back to where Toby wakes up after regrowing his brain and Tyler’s parents think he’s him they immediately take him to get a costume from the most distinguished super-tailor around. He explains that the material is actually a nanotech material that can be easily manipulated and reshaped simply by sending the right signal which Toby has no problems doing. So it’s really a semi-alive material and has no problems clinging to skin (a must have for the super-females although I don’t remember any that had the ‘barely a two-piece swimsuit’ for a costume so far, they all from what I remember actually have full coverage costumes like the males).
I can see Moonshadow avoiding this guy. Disguises won’t work on him.
I don’t know. The disguise works on everyone but Cecil and he is shocked no one can tell. Including the teachers who sent him for training. It may be that the purposes of costumes in this reality is to make a ‘Somebody Else’s Problem’ field.
Pretty sure the teachers know who Moonshadow is, they just play along. Revenant is a friend of theirs after all, and know that secrecy is paramount, especially for a non-powered vigilante who, because he isn’t privileged superpowered royalty, is not allowed to be doing any super heroing. So they keep it quiet and play along with the myth.
The teachers know due to the death and resurrection of moonshadow arc.
They sent him for training but didn’t know he would get a new identity.
The amount of grief Tyler gets on a daily basis (and that just from his parents!), it’s full credit to him he hasn’t gone the way of Syndrome and become an evil hero-killer
Comes from being a relatively well-balanced person emotionally along with his exposure to better examples at the school, Syndrome wasn’t very well balanced to begin with as a kid and went off the deep end when rejected and after failing to see the events that day in there entirety including Mr. Incredible saving his life from the bomb he was too oblivious about to notice. If he’d been better balanced he’d have been going ‘oh thank you for saving my life!’.
Is it possible to do away with the Captcha timer? So often it expires while typing the message
And then gives a 404 error when you try to reset it.
When that time out shows up, simply copy the message, refresh the page and paste the message (this is the only site that uses a timed Captcha system have personally come across)
The fact that Tyler hasn’t gone super villain bent on revenge against his parents and “brother” is a testament to his mental fortitude.
Oops, Guesticus beat me to it.
Was thinking more his moral fortitude