Had to rewrite this. Because in a way I agree with the villain. Not the sour attitude or putting people down. But in a group session to let people express their feelings and come to terms they barely touch on them and begin with judgment.
The but you can do other things counter to I feel like if I don’t do well in this one way I am disappointing the most important people in my life. It is too shallow and shot from the hip. It makes you want to get quiet and bottle it all up. Because those that are supposed to help. Won’t and make you feel weak for needing it.
Your comment needs some quotation marks. “The ‘but you can do other things’ counter to ‘I feel like if I don’t do well in this one way I am disappointing the most important people in my life,’ it is too shallow and shot from the hip.”
To be fair to kaian, it took me a moment or two to realize that the word balloon was coming from the (ex-)villain’s mouth, and not Ron’s. It sounds like something Ron might say in his bitterness, given how he was acting when last he had his powers and was twisting everything into a reason why everything sucks. (He had, and still has, plenty that does, of course, suck, but he was twisting even neutral or positive things into sucking.)
I kind-of hope Dr. Newby scolds everybody else about how this is an open session for sharing (much as I sincerely dislike most of the psychobabble behind such things), because let’s be honest: Villainboy is expressing his own pain and anger, at least as much as if not more than he is mocking Ron. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Ron was thinking much the same thing he said.
Thank you for trying to defend my point. But sadly I was agreeing with the bitter villain because Newby and the others miss what was done.
Ron has the same problem he had when he went to the Praetorian Academy. His home life seems tattered and he feels it is some how all his fault. When he says he thinks he is disappointing his parents, instead of addressing THAT issue. Newby shoots back with a ‘you can do other things’ comment. That at that age feels like. ‘Your problems don’t matter, shut up.’
One of the things therapists and counselors are trained to do is offer options and redirect, at least in the initial stages. Confronting issues head-on is typically saved for later, once trust has been established between the therapist/counselor and the participant. That why Dr. Newby is taking the approach she is.
That said, the rest of your post is dead-on. Ron has defined himself in terms of his powers and likely was defined thusly by his parents. Failing to give Ron affirmation that he is loved regardless of his successes and failures is his parent’s failure, and unfortunately, that’s a problem Dr. Newby needs to tackle with Ron’s parents directly so they can help Ron heal.
And I especially like the last sentence in your comment – although I think it’s often true *regardless* of how old the person with the problem is.
Except that Ron’s parents, despite their differences with each other, still love Ron unconditionally. Atlas did try telling Ron that he did nothing wrong after their divorce.
On Argos, Atlas didn’t seem so devastated about Ron’s loss of powers and was more concerned about getting him off-world. When Ron got back to Earth, Ron’s mother enrolled him in Excelsior instead of having him continue to attend PS238 where he could get hurt.
Even separate, they are better parents than Ultima and Sovereign together.
This is actually to Adahn:
Re: Ron’s enrollment to Excelsior as opposed to PS238 as an act of love- um, definitely she loves Ron, but I don’t think no longer enrolling him in PS238 was her choice anyway. It’s just that Ron no longer has powers. He’s just a normal kid now.
Of course, this is still in contrast to Tyler’s parents who refuse to see him as just normal (or sometimes don’t see him at all because he’s normal).
The other issue “at that age” is perhaps the thing you and others have mentioned, but which struck me rather strongly: coping mechanisms serve a useful purpose — something adults are generally aware of — from the more literal and direct perspective of a child, coping mechanisms probably just look like hopelessly inadequate replacements for the real thing. So Newby’s statement might sound weak or facile to Ron.
Of course, the adult viewing things from a child’s perspective comes off a bit childish.
I really think having participants at different life stage is a bit counterproductive, Ron and Tyler, for all they’ve done still see the world as kids, with kids’ emotional maps. The adults have other baggage and already seem to be hijacking thekid’s worries with theirs. Super sourgrapes may be the jerk of the group, but I think Ron needs that smack because the kinder affection and understanding is not addressing what he needs. Too much kid gloves can be worse then, it doesn’t help deal with the issues but more denies their feeling and weight.
Tyler gets tools and approval from multiple directions, especially Revenant and the other teachers, so here he seems to be forcibly pushed back into his helpless stage… really not meshing with his last scene with 84. He’s mostly grow beyond this, aside from denial parents. I’m suspecting he’s here mostly as a cover for his Moonshadow role and to have an agement for Ron, who desperatly needs the therapy. (even if Cecil thinks his powers may not be gone)
The adults almost seem to be replaying the kid/adult dynamic from the 84/egg sequence.
Frankly, the ex-villain shouldn’t be there. Yeah, legally mandated and all that, but he’s actively inhibiting the judgement-free environment that you NEED in a group like this.
Either that or just have Revenant attend so that whenever the villain tries to take out his frustrations, Revenant can punch him. Either-or.
I’m so reminded of what people were saying to me after the TBI from when someone tried to kill me, the stuff they said when I was being denied disability. I had orthopedic injuries that prevented being able to do the physical things I used to do, and I had the TBI that destroyed my ability to do the things I used to do with my mind, and every one kept saying I could do A because I couldn’t do B when I was applying for disability because I could no longer do either A or B.
See trope, “Jerk*** has a Point”. What Ron *needs* right now is to know that he’s not disappointing anyone — and that anyone who would judge him strictly by his powers isn’t a good person to start with. He’s more than just a powerset with a bunch of numbers attached, like some lazy player’s character in an RPG — he’s a person, and he shouldn’t feel like he has to be something specific just to satisfy other people.
Easier said than done when the critics are your parents.
Not that your point isn’t spot on – Ron needs to know he’s valued regardless of “success” or “failure” and be fully himsefl and comfortable in that, regardless what the losers.. erm.. other people say. 😀
Unfortunately instead of that bringing up another talent could be interpreted as “You failed at that so be very careful not to fail at this alternative career path as well” possibly with insults mixed in if the individual is particularly depressed.
I don’t think Ron’s entirely wrong to think Atlas’ disappointed. Of course he doesn’t blame Ron. Atlas knows the powerloss is something that was done to Ron, by enemies he (Atlas) made, rather than anything Ron’s responsible for. But still, it’s not what he wanted for his son. Besides, even before all that, he’d convinced himself he was being selfish by not defining himself by his powers. (Even though neither of his parents wanted to restrict him like that.) It’s probably hard to let go of that way of thinking, even if the powerloss wasn’t his fault.
Has anybody ever wondered what the life expectancy of someone with lifetime powers would be if something happened to them? Years of instincts that would have to be relearned at a fundamental level? Particularly if you were a FISS type?
Some incidents might be survivable, like picking an egg out of boiling water without thinking about it. Some maybe not, like finding yourself reaching up for the falling safe instead of diving out of the way.
To heck with the psychological self-help. What someone like Ron needs is continuous training to stay alive when you’re suddenly a lot more fragile than you used to be.
The other side of this coin, of course, is “Ralph Hinkley” syndrome, where somebody new to his powers still cowers when somebody shoots at him, or refuses to fly higher than about fifteen feet.
The comparison I think would be most similar would probably be somebody having to relearn everything after their dominant arm had been removed.
Used removed because amputation tends to imply a preexisting problem where keeping the limb would be more harmful and the limb may not have been specifically ‘cut’ off.
A few big rubber balls in the face while he’s still young enough to relearn his reflexes is much more socially acceptable than other more drastic instinct-rewritings.
In case I missed something, the last time we saw Atlas, wasn’t he A) stuck on his home world trying to hold the government together as ruler, and B) the last he knew his son, Ron, was lost somewhere in space. Does he know Ron made it back to Earth?
And what of the hybrid organism, the spaceship he came back on? It was a new intelligence trying to figure itself out.
Argh. How do you deal with jerks like that?
I understand trying to reform the convicted, but if they don’t want to help and even hinder others, why require him to take these classes?
It’s amazing how often the criminal justice system and the psychiatric fields fail to consider impact on others when deciding to “fix” somebody who’s “broken” (because obviously nobody can be evil; anybody who does something wrong just needs to have their “real problems” identified and solved for them).
Of course, I may be letting a certain amount of bias I have towards the field show, here. After one friend was killed by an irresponsible psychiatrist and another nearly killed, both due to the psych’s approach being “find a checkbox to check and then give a drug for it” followed by “oh, new symptoms that 5 minutes of thought would reveal are a known side effect of other drugs I have him on? That checkbox calls for MORE drugs!” and I really don’t have faith in the field as a whole. Oh, and a third one that ran a drug mill disguised as a psychiatric office that almost poisoned a third close friend and loved one. I forget about that one because it was caught early by said loved one’s parent, who was monitoring it closely.
Three highly distinct data points. Anecdotal, still, but even if it’s just a “Segev’s luck with the field” detector, I will avoid the field like the poisonous plague it apparently is.
…and yes, this is psychology, here, not psychiatry, so it’s not likely they’re prescribing drugs. But these kinds of “group sessions” were used on ME as a kid when they called me in to “talk it out” with little brats who were bullying me. By the time they were through, 5th-grade-me was convinced that it was his fault that he was being pushed around, made fun of, having his stuff stolen, and (the instigating incident that actually caused the teachers to pay attention) getting ganged up on and beaten up. (“Beaten up” being a strong phrase, as I wasn’t injured due to my backpack being in the way when I balled up on the ground like a turtle. But the intent was definite).
Because, you see, there can’t be fault unless all sides are equally guilty so that nobody is guilty. It was, apparently, my fault for “intimidating” the other kids with how I spoke. Which really just meant I had a larger vocabulary and used it without thinking, “oh, I should dumb it down because others won’t understand me.” In 5th grade, I assumed everybody had a vocabulary like mine.
Segev, I don’t know what to say to that. My own experiences with psychologists and shrinks have been nothing but helpful and positive. Even with all those painful experiences, I just hope you’re okay now.
Oh, I’m fine. I have never needed psychiatric or psychological care beyond that given “standard” as one grows up in a healthy and loving family. I am truly blessed when it comes to my family.
That is just a (perhaps over-detailed) explanation as to why I have no patience for the various psych professions. And why I probably will find most of what is handled in this…”session”…in the comic to be counterproductive at best.
Oh, you too? Hi from another victim of the “well if we could just fix why she’s so weird then the other kids will leave her alone!” school of school counselling.
I know what you mean about those bullies, Segev. We had the same little shits where I went to school. The difference being I had siblings and cousins around, if one was getting ganged up on the others would pitch in (yay tribal instincts) and we all fought mean. It didn’t take much of that before the bullies went looking for someone else (at which point we’d kick their ass again, because what’s the point of a feud if you don’t use it?).
In retrospect, my elementary school dossier is probably a sea of red flags that’d get me heavily medicated in this day and age.
I don’t understand the comments condemning the way discussion is going: it’s actually GOOD when people in a trauma support group actually talk about their issues. Conflict is always going to happen at one point or another, but that’s precisely the point where group members begin to open, and where the psychologist can act: what they say tells something about them AND since it’s in the open, it can be discussed and put to rest.
Also, note that Ron’s dilemma is still the same as when he had powers: he wants to be what someone else wants him to be, still, so his problem has nothing to do with having powers… He just needs to be pushed in having more self-confidence, and be his own man.
I see also that Lester is totally missing the point: He’s comparing playing music with having super-strength as two means to feel confident/powerful, and not, as Ron expresses it, as a way to get approbation from others.
I suspect the issue is going to be about the finality, the meaning of one own’s actions, and maybe the example of moonshadow or 84, who save people and gets called heroes, contrasted with people like (probably) Aquaman, who saved people to be called hero, is going to be brought to the forefront.
Following up on my speculation about Paula’s purse — I guess it “only” contains her taser. Oh, well.
On the other hand, that might be a hint a to what she might (putatively) have asked for from Power & Glory — “Got anything small that will call down the lightning?”
I’m not sure we’re going to see it be a DIFFERENT power set. It could be that he’ll just develop resistance to the aragonite and regain his own powers. Or it could be that aragonite doesn’t remove powers; it just suppresses them. So he still has his FISS abilities and may grow back into them (or a cure to remove the aragonite infection might be discovered).
Not saying it can’t be a whole different suite of powers, but…
It’s possible he will regain FISS powers, but I wouldn’t bet on it. His powers from his dad were “fried”. What remains, according to Cecil, is whatever powers can emerge from the genes of his (normal) mom.
Unfortunately, the page saying this is missing from the archives. It’s supposed to be between 5302014 and 6042014. I forgot to look up my hardcopy of PS238 last night, so I don’t have the exact quotes. I may even be wrongly remembering the dialogue; it’s possible that the AI of the ship that brought Argonaut/Captain Clarinet and Moon Shadow home said that Ron won’t be a FISS any more should he get his powers back.
For all we know, we could one day be looking at a Captain Clarinet with more clarinet-based powers. At the least, Ron is looking forward to having a different power set (061814).
Cecil never said anything like that, he only said that he had the ability to detect whether someone had powers or since he could get that vibe from Ron that he could detect he still had the potential for powers, at no point does he say that he had the potential for power from his mother’s side and his father’s side was permanently gone. I think you’re getting your fanon mixed in with the canon. All we know is that Ron’s powers were supposedly permanently suppressed by the argonite laser but Cecil still gets a powers vibe from him implying Ron either has powers he’s not realized he’s still got or has the potential to regain powers in some form.
When I get back home from work, I’ll put up the exact quote from the page that’s missing in the online archives here. What I’m definitely sure of is his use of the word “fried” in reference to Ron’s FISS powers as being from his dead. Cecil’s conjecture is thus that Ron’s giving off a vibe despite such is from his mom instead, whether likely or certain or whatnot. Just give me a couple of hours.
We know that Cecil actually CANNOT detect ALIENS as “super” if they’re normal for their species. We are not clear whether he can detect “abnormal” superpowers in them. But Prospero, for example, doesn’t “ping” on Cecildar.
I wonder if Atlas (both Ulron and Forak) ping. Because that would tell us if Ron’s argonian powers would register at all, or not.
Starting with the last panel of 5302014 through to the 3rd panel of the missing page. Capitalized words are those in bold font in the comic just to keep the emphasis Aaron put in when he wrote the dialogue.
CECIL: WHATEVER. Look, I get a kind of WEIRD VIBE from superheroes, at least the ones with powers, and I think I get them from people who CAN have superpowers but they haven’t “gone off” yet.
CECIL: You STILL give me that weird vibe. I don’t think you’re going to be NORMAL for the rest of your life.
RON: I’m NOT? Really? But HOW? The argonite laser’s effect is PERMANENT, isn’t it?
CECIL: Do I look like an expert on argonite lasers?
RON: I don’t know WHAT you look like,
CECIL: Oh, right. Um, I mean, GOOD.
CECIL: Anyway, based on my years studying science fiction TV, movies, and books with a huge side order of comics, my theory is this: your alien dad gave you the powers you HAD, and THOSE got FRIED. But the super powers you MIGHT have someday came from your human mom and WEREN’T lasered out of you.
RON: That’s a pretty big guess.
CECIL: I had help from this computer I know. He’s pretty smart.
RON: So what do I do?
CECIL: You got me. I don’t know HOW powers get started, I only know you’ve got POTENTIAL.
I’m pretty tired now, but I intend to go through the previous book to check if the argonite laser’s effect is really permanent, but it’s implied at least here to be (and I’m confident it is). And while Cecil tells Ron he knows his stuff by being genre savvy, he also admits his knowledge is backed up by either Vance or Zodon’s AI/satellite kid.
Segev makes a good point. Is Cecildar good only for normal and super powered HUMANS? And even if it worked on alien supers, he may still be unable to distinguish if the vibe he’s getting from Ron is from his alien dad or human mom. For all we know, both sides would give off vibes but coming from one person it would seem to Cecil that there’s only one signal and one source. We know Cecil can detect particularly powerful supers, but sharper detection and discernment may be beyond him.
Whatever the case, I’m confident that Cecil’s statements are true: Ron’s Argosian FISS powers are gone for good but he still has metahuman potential from his mom. And it’s possible that such may turn him into a FISS again, but I lean towards the idea of him getting something else instead.
Oh yeah, it also begs the question: argonite works not just on Argosians but all FISS. For all we know, the argonite laser could kill even secondary FISS potential- meaning Ron’s getting zapped could have possibly removed FISS potential from his mom alongside his manifested FISS powers from his dad. I admit that his is a mighty big conjecture but, if correct, this means that Cecil shouldn’t be feeling any vibes from Ron anymore. But that he still does means that his remaining meta potential must there not be FISS again.
Even if it’s effects are permanent, I wonder if it really counts as “removing” the powers, in a “would whatever detectors there are which finds them detect them” sense. Argonite weakens FISS. If the Argonite Laser just weakened them to “softling” level, and stayed in the system, it would mean they’re still FISS.
Actually, a good way to test this would be to expose Ron to argonite and see if it makes him sick the way it did Julie.
That’s up to Aaron, but I personally suspect that it’s not merely a permanent weakening of a FISS to “softling” status but a complete burning out of what makes a FISS a FISS.
Interesting to see that Lester is fairly observant in spite of having been – by his own claim – super-powerful. A working mind in combination with mega-magic makes for a dangerous villain…
I don’t see why having been super-powerful should make him not observant or less observant than others. I wouldn’t be surprised if precisely his being smart and having the might to back it up is why likely-to-have-been-the-Revenant took him down.
Because absolute power begets absolute laziness.
People who can do anything tend to lose sight of details and start to think their power is all they need to solve any problem.
Actually… you make a good point. Yes, I see and now agree.
And what you say IS one of the major themes and lessons of the comic- how people ignore what’s so obvious and right in front of them.
I’m finding this story interesting as it touches on a sore spot I see in the Supers genre in general, (and RPGs in particular), the powers define the character to a point where they’re barely 2-dimesional without the powers.
Wish-fulfilment aside, it tends to make for pretty boring characters and stories from the reader’s point of view. I guess it’s some of a hold-over from the old pulps that modern comics are descended from.
Had to rewrite this. Because in a way I agree with the villain. Not the sour attitude or putting people down. But in a group session to let people express their feelings and come to terms they barely touch on them and begin with judgment.
The but you can do other things counter to I feel like if I don’t do well in this one way I am disappointing the most important people in my life. It is too shallow and shot from the hip. It makes you want to get quiet and bottle it all up. Because those that are supposed to help. Won’t and make you feel weak for needing it.
You are the yellow robot.
http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff2800/fc02798.htm
Your comment needs some quotation marks. “The ‘but you can do other things’ counter to ‘I feel like if I don’t do well in this one way I am disappointing the most important people in my life,’ it is too shallow and shot from the hip.”
It’s hard to decipher otherwise.
Apologies on the clarity. I shall endeavor to do better next time.
To be fair to kaian, it took me a moment or two to realize that the word balloon was coming from the (ex-)villain’s mouth, and not Ron’s. It sounds like something Ron might say in his bitterness, given how he was acting when last he had his powers and was twisting everything into a reason why everything sucks. (He had, and still has, plenty that does, of course, suck, but he was twisting even neutral or positive things into sucking.)
I kind-of hope Dr. Newby scolds everybody else about how this is an open session for sharing (much as I sincerely dislike most of the psychobabble behind such things), because let’s be honest: Villainboy is expressing his own pain and anger, at least as much as if not more than he is mocking Ron. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Ron was thinking much the same thing he said.
Thank you for trying to defend my point. But sadly I was agreeing with the bitter villain because Newby and the others miss what was done.
Ron has the same problem he had when he went to the Praetorian Academy. His home life seems tattered and he feels it is some how all his fault. When he says he thinks he is disappointing his parents, instead of addressing THAT issue. Newby shoots back with a ‘you can do other things’ comment. That at that age feels like. ‘Your problems don’t matter, shut up.’
One of the things therapists and counselors are trained to do is offer options and redirect, at least in the initial stages. Confronting issues head-on is typically saved for later, once trust has been established between the therapist/counselor and the participant. That why Dr. Newby is taking the approach she is.
That said, the rest of your post is dead-on. Ron has defined himself in terms of his powers and likely was defined thusly by his parents. Failing to give Ron affirmation that he is loved regardless of his successes and failures is his parent’s failure, and unfortunately, that’s a problem Dr. Newby needs to tackle with Ron’s parents directly so they can help Ron heal.
And I especially like the last sentence in your comment – although I think it’s often true *regardless* of how old the person with the problem is.
Except that Ron’s parents, despite their differences with each other, still love Ron unconditionally. Atlas did try telling Ron that he did nothing wrong after their divorce.
On Argos, Atlas didn’t seem so devastated about Ron’s loss of powers and was more concerned about getting him off-world. When Ron got back to Earth, Ron’s mother enrolled him in Excelsior instead of having him continue to attend PS238 where he could get hurt.
Even separate, they are better parents than Ultima and Sovereign together.
This is actually to Adahn:
Re: Ron’s enrollment to Excelsior as opposed to PS238 as an act of love- um, definitely she loves Ron, but I don’t think no longer enrolling him in PS238 was her choice anyway. It’s just that Ron no longer has powers. He’s just a normal kid now.
Of course, this is still in contrast to Tyler’s parents who refuse to see him as just normal (or sometimes don’t see him at all because he’s normal).
The other issue “at that age” is perhaps the thing you and others have mentioned, but which struck me rather strongly: coping mechanisms serve a useful purpose — something adults are generally aware of — from the more literal and direct perspective of a child, coping mechanisms probably just look like hopelessly inadequate replacements for the real thing. So Newby’s statement might sound weak or facile to Ron.
Of course, the adult viewing things from a child’s perspective comes off a bit childish.
I don’t see it that way, they’re trying to accent Ron’s positive aspects and to remind him that he still HAS positive aspects to focus on.
I really think having participants at different life stage is a bit counterproductive, Ron and Tyler, for all they’ve done still see the world as kids, with kids’ emotional maps. The adults have other baggage and already seem to be hijacking thekid’s worries with theirs. Super sourgrapes may be the jerk of the group, but I think Ron needs that smack because the kinder affection and understanding is not addressing what he needs. Too much kid gloves can be worse then, it doesn’t help deal with the issues but more denies their feeling and weight.
Tyler gets tools and approval from multiple directions, especially Revenant and the other teachers, so here he seems to be forcibly pushed back into his helpless stage… really not meshing with his last scene with 84. He’s mostly grow beyond this, aside from denial parents. I’m suspecting he’s here mostly as a cover for his Moonshadow role and to have an agement for Ron, who desperatly needs the therapy. (even if Cecil thinks his powers may not be gone)
The adults almost seem to be replaying the kid/adult dynamic from the 84/egg sequence.
Frankly, the ex-villain shouldn’t be there. Yeah, legally mandated and all that, but he’s actively inhibiting the judgement-free environment that you NEED in a group like this.
Either that or just have Revenant attend so that whenever the villain tries to take out his frustrations, Revenant can punch him. Either-or.
I’m so reminded of what people were saying to me after the TBI from when someone tried to kill me, the stuff they said when I was being denied disability. I had orthopedic injuries that prevented being able to do the physical things I used to do, and I had the TBI that destroyed my ability to do the things I used to do with my mind, and every one kept saying I could do A because I couldn’t do B when I was applying for disability because I could no longer do either A or B.
See trope, “Jerk*** has a Point”. What Ron *needs* right now is to know that he’s not disappointing anyone — and that anyone who would judge him strictly by his powers isn’t a good person to start with. He’s more than just a powerset with a bunch of numbers attached, like some lazy player’s character in an RPG — he’s a person, and he shouldn’t feel like he has to be something specific just to satisfy other people.
Easier said than done when the critics are your parents.
Not that your point isn’t spot on – Ron needs to know he’s valued regardless of “success” or “failure” and be fully himsefl and comfortable in that, regardless what the losers.. erm.. other people say. 😀
Unfortunately instead of that bringing up another talent could be interpreted as “You failed at that so be very careful not to fail at this alternative career path as well” possibly with insults mixed in if the individual is particularly depressed.
I don’t think Ron’s entirely wrong to think Atlas’ disappointed. Of course he doesn’t blame Ron. Atlas knows the powerloss is something that was done to Ron, by enemies he (Atlas) made, rather than anything Ron’s responsible for. But still, it’s not what he wanted for his son. Besides, even before all that, he’d convinced himself he was being selfish by not defining himself by his powers. (Even though neither of his parents wanted to restrict him like that.) It’s probably hard to let go of that way of thinking, even if the powerloss wasn’t his fault.
Has anybody ever wondered what the life expectancy of someone with lifetime powers would be if something happened to them? Years of instincts that would have to be relearned at a fundamental level? Particularly if you were a FISS type?
Some incidents might be survivable, like picking an egg out of boiling water without thinking about it. Some maybe not, like finding yourself reaching up for the falling safe instead of diving out of the way.
To heck with the psychological self-help. What someone like Ron needs is continuous training to stay alive when you’re suddenly a lot more fragile than you used to be.
The other side of this coin, of course, is “Ralph Hinkley” syndrome, where somebody new to his powers still cowers when somebody shoots at him, or refuses to fly higher than about fifteen feet.
The comparison I think would be most similar would probably be somebody having to relearn everything after their dominant arm had been removed.
Used removed because amputation tends to imply a preexisting problem where keeping the limb would be more harmful and the limb may not have been specifically ‘cut’ off.
That’s what Dodgeball is for.
http://ps238.nodwick.com/comic/05212014/
A few big rubber balls in the face while he’s still young enough to relearn his reflexes is much more socially acceptable than other more drastic instinct-rewritings.
In case I missed something, the last time we saw Atlas, wasn’t he A) stuck on his home world trying to hold the government together as ruler, and B) the last he knew his son, Ron, was lost somewhere in space. Does he know Ron made it back to Earth?
And what of the hybrid organism, the spaceship he came back on? It was a new intelligence trying to figure itself out.
So many possibilities.
Argh. How do you deal with jerks like that?
I understand trying to reform the convicted, but if they don’t want to help and even hinder others, why require him to take these classes?
It’s amazing how often the criminal justice system and the psychiatric fields fail to consider impact on others when deciding to “fix” somebody who’s “broken” (because obviously nobody can be evil; anybody who does something wrong just needs to have their “real problems” identified and solved for them).
Of course, I may be letting a certain amount of bias I have towards the field show, here. After one friend was killed by an irresponsible psychiatrist and another nearly killed, both due to the psych’s approach being “find a checkbox to check and then give a drug for it” followed by “oh, new symptoms that 5 minutes of thought would reveal are a known side effect of other drugs I have him on? That checkbox calls for MORE drugs!” and I really don’t have faith in the field as a whole. Oh, and a third one that ran a drug mill disguised as a psychiatric office that almost poisoned a third close friend and loved one. I forget about that one because it was caught early by said loved one’s parent, who was monitoring it closely.
Three highly distinct data points. Anecdotal, still, but even if it’s just a “Segev’s luck with the field” detector, I will avoid the field like the poisonous plague it apparently is.
…and yes, this is psychology, here, not psychiatry, so it’s not likely they’re prescribing drugs. But these kinds of “group sessions” were used on ME as a kid when they called me in to “talk it out” with little brats who were bullying me. By the time they were through, 5th-grade-me was convinced that it was his fault that he was being pushed around, made fun of, having his stuff stolen, and (the instigating incident that actually caused the teachers to pay attention) getting ganged up on and beaten up. (“Beaten up” being a strong phrase, as I wasn’t injured due to my backpack being in the way when I balled up on the ground like a turtle. But the intent was definite).
Because, you see, there can’t be fault unless all sides are equally guilty so that nobody is guilty. It was, apparently, my fault for “intimidating” the other kids with how I spoke. Which really just meant I had a larger vocabulary and used it without thinking, “oh, I should dumb it down because others won’t understand me.” In 5th grade, I assumed everybody had a vocabulary like mine.
Your issue with bullies and the schools that seem to encourage them sounds sadly familiar.
Segev, I don’t know what to say to that. My own experiences with psychologists and shrinks have been nothing but helpful and positive. Even with all those painful experiences, I just hope you’re okay now.
Oh, I’m fine. I have never needed psychiatric or psychological care beyond that given “standard” as one grows up in a healthy and loving family. I am truly blessed when it comes to my family.
That is just a (perhaps over-detailed) explanation as to why I have no patience for the various psych professions. And why I probably will find most of what is handled in this…”session”…in the comic to be counterproductive at best.
Oh, you too? Hi from another victim of the “well if we could just fix why she’s so weird then the other kids will leave her alone!” school of school counselling.
I know what you mean about those bullies, Segev. We had the same little shits where I went to school. The difference being I had siblings and cousins around, if one was getting ganged up on the others would pitch in (yay tribal instincts) and we all fought mean. It didn’t take much of that before the bullies went looking for someone else (at which point we’d kick their ass again, because what’s the point of a feud if you don’t use it?).
In retrospect, my elementary school dossier is probably a sea of red flags that’d get me heavily medicated in this day and age.
I don’t understand the comments condemning the way discussion is going: it’s actually GOOD when people in a trauma support group actually talk about their issues. Conflict is always going to happen at one point or another, but that’s precisely the point where group members begin to open, and where the psychologist can act: what they say tells something about them AND since it’s in the open, it can be discussed and put to rest.
Also, note that Ron’s dilemma is still the same as when he had powers: he wants to be what someone else wants him to be, still, so his problem has nothing to do with having powers… He just needs to be pushed in having more self-confidence, and be his own man.
I see also that Lester is totally missing the point: He’s comparing playing music with having super-strength as two means to feel confident/powerful, and not, as Ron expresses it, as a way to get approbation from others.
I suspect the issue is going to be about the finality, the meaning of one own’s actions, and maybe the example of moonshadow or 84, who save people and gets called heroes, contrasted with people like (probably) Aquaman, who saved people to be called hero, is going to be brought to the forefront.
Following up on my speculation about Paula’s purse — I guess it “only” contains her taser. Oh, well.
On the other hand, that might be a hint a to what she might (putatively) have asked for from Power & Glory — “Got anything small that will call down the lightning?”
i think thats kind of the point, seeing which one of these “losers’ are goign to see “power & Glory”
Maybe it’s all of them, just at different times.
My first guess it that it was none of them and they have to work together to stop whoever did.
My second guess is that it was the villain desperate to reclaim might.
I wonder if this storyline is going to end up revealing the additional powers that Cecil sensed in Ron, from the human half of his heritage.
I’m not sure we’re going to see it be a DIFFERENT power set. It could be that he’ll just develop resistance to the aragonite and regain his own powers. Or it could be that aragonite doesn’t remove powers; it just suppresses them. So he still has his FISS abilities and may grow back into them (or a cure to remove the aragonite infection might be discovered).
Not saying it can’t be a whole different suite of powers, but…
Argonite, aragonite makes you draw like Sergio Aragones. Which wouldn’t be a bad thing.
…wow. I know I TYPED “argonite.” Watching my screen carefully as I typed it that time reveals that auto-correct was sneaking that extra “a” in. Woops.
It’s possible he will regain FISS powers, but I wouldn’t bet on it. His powers from his dad were “fried”. What remains, according to Cecil, is whatever powers can emerge from the genes of his (normal) mom.
Unfortunately, the page saying this is missing from the archives. It’s supposed to be between 5302014 and 6042014. I forgot to look up my hardcopy of PS238 last night, so I don’t have the exact quotes. I may even be wrongly remembering the dialogue; it’s possible that the AI of the ship that brought Argonaut/Captain Clarinet and Moon Shadow home said that Ron won’t be a FISS any more should he get his powers back.
For all we know, we could one day be looking at a Captain Clarinet with more clarinet-based powers. At the least, Ron is looking forward to having a different power set (061814).
Cecil never said anything like that, he only said that he had the ability to detect whether someone had powers or since he could get that vibe from Ron that he could detect he still had the potential for powers, at no point does he say that he had the potential for power from his mother’s side and his father’s side was permanently gone. I think you’re getting your fanon mixed in with the canon. All we know is that Ron’s powers were supposedly permanently suppressed by the argonite laser but Cecil still gets a powers vibe from him implying Ron either has powers he’s not realized he’s still got or has the potential to regain powers in some form.
When I get back home from work, I’ll put up the exact quote from the page that’s missing in the online archives here. What I’m definitely sure of is his use of the word “fried” in reference to Ron’s FISS powers as being from his dead. Cecil’s conjecture is thus that Ron’s giving off a vibe despite such is from his mom instead, whether likely or certain or whatnot. Just give me a couple of hours.
Actually…one more thing of note:
We know that Cecil actually CANNOT detect ALIENS as “super” if they’re normal for their species. We are not clear whether he can detect “abnormal” superpowers in them. But Prospero, for example, doesn’t “ping” on Cecildar.
I wonder if Atlas (both Ulron and Forak) ping. Because that would tell us if Ron’s argonian powers would register at all, or not.
Starting with the last panel of 5302014 through to the 3rd panel of the missing page. Capitalized words are those in bold font in the comic just to keep the emphasis Aaron put in when he wrote the dialogue.
CECIL: WHATEVER. Look, I get a kind of WEIRD VIBE from superheroes, at least the ones with powers, and I think I get them from people who CAN have superpowers but they haven’t “gone off” yet.
CECIL: You STILL give me that weird vibe. I don’t think you’re going to be NORMAL for the rest of your life.
RON: I’m NOT? Really? But HOW? The argonite laser’s effect is PERMANENT, isn’t it?
CECIL: Do I look like an expert on argonite lasers?
RON: I don’t know WHAT you look like,
CECIL: Oh, right. Um, I mean, GOOD.
CECIL: Anyway, based on my years studying science fiction TV, movies, and books with a huge side order of comics, my theory is this: your alien dad gave you the powers you HAD, and THOSE got FRIED. But the super powers you MIGHT have someday came from your human mom and WEREN’T lasered out of you.
RON: That’s a pretty big guess.
CECIL: I had help from this computer I know. He’s pretty smart.
RON: So what do I do?
CECIL: You got me. I don’t know HOW powers get started, I only know you’ve got POTENTIAL.
I’m pretty tired now, but I intend to go through the previous book to check if the argonite laser’s effect is really permanent, but it’s implied at least here to be (and I’m confident it is). And while Cecil tells Ron he knows his stuff by being genre savvy, he also admits his knowledge is backed up by either Vance or Zodon’s AI/satellite kid.
Segev makes a good point. Is Cecildar good only for normal and super powered HUMANS? And even if it worked on alien supers, he may still be unable to distinguish if the vibe he’s getting from Ron is from his alien dad or human mom. For all we know, both sides would give off vibes but coming from one person it would seem to Cecil that there’s only one signal and one source. We know Cecil can detect particularly powerful supers, but sharper detection and discernment may be beyond him.
Whatever the case, I’m confident that Cecil’s statements are true: Ron’s Argosian FISS powers are gone for good but he still has metahuman potential from his mom. And it’s possible that such may turn him into a FISS again, but I lean towards the idea of him getting something else instead.
Oh yeah, it also begs the question: argonite works not just on Argosians but all FISS. For all we know, the argonite laser could kill even secondary FISS potential- meaning Ron’s getting zapped could have possibly removed FISS potential from his mom alongside his manifested FISS powers from his dad. I admit that his is a mighty big conjecture but, if correct, this means that Cecil shouldn’t be feeling any vibes from Ron anymore. But that he still does means that his remaining meta potential must there not be FISS again.
Correction, last paragraph:
“But that he still does means that his remaining meta potential must thus not be FISS again.”
From: 07082013.
DEX-RA: “I see I’ll have to speak with the castle’s ARTIFICIAL BRAIN. It assured me the effects of the argonite beam it designed would be PERMANENT.
Even if it’s effects are permanent, I wonder if it really counts as “removing” the powers, in a “would whatever detectors there are which finds them detect them” sense. Argonite weakens FISS. If the Argonite Laser just weakened them to “softling” level, and stayed in the system, it would mean they’re still FISS.
Actually, a good way to test this would be to expose Ron to argonite and see if it makes him sick the way it did Julie.
That’s up to Aaron, but I personally suspect that it’s not merely a permanent weakening of a FISS to “softling” status but a complete burning out of what makes a FISS a FISS.
Reminds me a bit of the 2006 movie ‘the art of negative thinking’. I highly recommend that movie btw.
And Tyler’s cover gets better than ever. Who would suspect Moonshadow in this group?
Interesting to see that Lester is fairly observant in spite of having been – by his own claim – super-powerful. A working mind in combination with mega-magic makes for a dangerous villain…
I don’t see why having been super-powerful should make him not observant or less observant than others. I wouldn’t be surprised if precisely his being smart and having the might to back it up is why likely-to-have-been-the-Revenant took him down.
Because absolute power begets absolute laziness.
People who can do anything tend to lose sight of details and start to think their power is all they need to solve any problem.
Actually… you make a good point. Yes, I see and now agree.
And what you say IS one of the major themes and lessons of the comic- how people ignore what’s so obvious and right in front of them.
*bows* Thank you.
I’m finding this story interesting as it touches on a sore spot I see in the Supers genre in general, (and RPGs in particular), the powers define the character to a point where they’re barely 2-dimesional without the powers.
Wish-fulfilment aside, it tends to make for pretty boring characters and stories from the reader’s point of view. I guess it’s some of a hold-over from the old pulps that modern comics are descended from.
I would love it if as a side note Paula got struck by lightning and recharged