I’m not so sure my early prognostication about who will be the last along with Julie. The conjurer seems to be heading for an epic smackdown, but that’s linear thought – and no story teller worth his salt thinks linearly.
Conjuror seems at least somewhat competent. He knows what’s going on, he’s aware of the obvious tropes, and he all but spelled out that this is a setting that rewards the clever over the powerful, which would make it rather silly if he arrogantly assumed his power would be enough in spite of that.
I would guess that his issue is that he’s thinking only of his own cleverness and his own power, not those of the other four heroes with him, and he might be unwilling to listen to someone with an idea that’s less clever than his but more effective.
Well, conjurer is enough of an d*ck to make anyone want to channel Zodon.
Personally I’m waiting for the class’ teenage years when Zodon start to channel Zordon & recruit a team of teenagers with attitude, only to end up with a team with attitude problems.
Even though they do have ego issues, they’re starting to show some personality. Of course Conjurer is proving himself to be straight up Grade A Jerk. I foresee something mortifying happening, like his helmet being removed and showing he’s not so “awesome and all that”. That could be a turning point for him, or could make him more brash. Epic Smackdown? Nah. A lesson in humility, entirely possible.
The others seem to have started to think about Julie to a degree not as a “FISS”, but rather as a kid in a dangerous place. One they feel that she’s not prepared to handle, because she’s vulnerable and weak. The truth doesn’t matter, its the perception they have. She’s a kid. One who is in a rather dangerous place.
It’s the kind of mentality that you’d expect from adults in such a situation. Of course the second things start flying most of them I expect will fall back on the “you’re just a musclehead” and the like.
Phlogiston (so far) seems the one who is most willing to listen to reason. Bu then again, she hasn’t had a chance to really interact with the others. I have a feeling that most of them will probably at least pause and give thought to her comments. Especially after the first mangling(proverbial, not literal) happens.
Conjurer … I have a feeling he wouldn’t listen to Julie (or even give her any respect) even if you shoved a mystic artifact in his face and it told him to do so.
So, I’m thinking that Conjurer is completely missing the obvious in that perhaps Veles uses the egg as a kind of vault/test. He could get the eye himself anytime he wants and likely keeps it where it is for times like this.
Also, liking Phlogiston more and Mr. Fishbowl less.
Yeah, pretty much this. He’s ignoring the obvious conclusion that Veles doesn’t need them to get the eye, he just WANTS them to, and is in full control of the egg’s interior.
Revenant: “Do you really have to pull the old egg trick out every few decades or so?”
Veles: “If I don’t do something with them, the inhabitants get annoyed and cranky and then they start entering your world. That would be dreadfully boring for me. I mean, they’ve entertained me oh so much over the centuries and capturing them again would be a chore.”
Conjurer has picked an interpretation of events and is now acting on the assumption that he’s correct, which makes him an arrogant fool, even if he’s correct.
One of the things I liked about Stargate SG-1 is that when something mysterious was going on, the characters went to the trouble of proposing as many explanations as they could think of, and then made plans based on “any of these might be true, or maybe it’s something else”, i.e. the kind of approach
that does’t guarantee death after a few iterations.
Intelligence does not always mean a person has Wisdom.
I personally know of someone in my family who is highly Intelligent, borderline genius even. However, he lacks the simple Wisdom to understand core facts of life.
It’s looking very much like Conjurer is adhering to the concept that all magicians use the same general Modus Operandi. It also makes me wonder just how much real experience he has in facing magical obstacles (ie Book Smart) or if he’s relied on the power of his magic as opposed to the skill and finesse that could really make it shine.
The fact he’s not stopping to go “what variables could their be?” shows that he lacks a certain degree of Wisdom. All he’s thinking about is “Defeat the next obstacle.”
Yes, one does have to wonder how someone like that has managed to get along in what one assumes is a risky and unforgiving profession. “Book smart” is normally more helpful in certain types of office and academic work than it is in the field, and relying on being the strongest magician present is pretty much bound to fail eventually. Perhaps he has assertive, snarky, practical counterparts in his regular team to offset his attitude?
Either that, or he’s never faced a particularly clever or creative opponent. It’s looking like both Veles and whoever created this egg (Koschei?) are likely to change this.
Uh it’s fairly basic and reasonable behavior for people to come to conclusions about something and act on what they believe is the correct response based on those conclusions. So that certainly doesn’t make Conjurer an arrogant fool, acting as if the only one who could possibly have valuable insight or useful ways of looking at the situation is himself that makes him an arrogant fool.
It’s basic and reasonable behavior in the face of familiar circumstances, or ordinary events in an otherwise safe environment. Operating with significantly more confidence than the situation warrants in a risky environment is pretty much a definition of “arrogant fool”.
One of the things I like about Williams’ writing is that when a character behaves this way it generally has the consequences one might expect.
Except to Conjurer it IS a fairly familiar environment and from a super-hero perspective it isn’t any more risky than any other general heroic venture so he’s not an arrogant fool for forming the conclusions he’s reached or for acting on them. We haven’t seen anything to think it isn’t operating within his expectations, indeed so far it is right down to the guide ‘at the door’ and the warning about ‘not cheating’. So what makes him an arrogant fool is treating everyone else as if they have nothing of value to contribute and appointing himself leader (although more acting as if everyone else is just baggage so that he’s less leader and more just ‘that guy on a quest with a gaggle of worthless hanger-ons to protect’).
“What makes him an arrogant fool is treating everyone else as if they have nothing of value to contribute” — That’s essentially my point.
Quoting Conjurer, “Why doesn’t he come in and get this eye himself? Most likely he can’t, or he tried and failed. We would do well to approach any challenge in a way Veles wouldn’t.”
There are more possibilities than that, especially if Veles is moderately creative and inclined toward deception. Knowing whatever rules govern a situation isn’t enough: if there are opponents involved, what they want and how they think is really what you need to know. Conjurer appears to be personally unfamiliar with both Veles and whoever established the egg, yet he’s acting as if he can confidently predict things about their motives and choices. He should be casting around for alternative possibilities, and keeping an eye out for the unexpected, which means listening to the people around him would be a very sensible idea at this point.
“Why doesn’t he come in and get this eye himself? Most likely he can’t, or he tried and failed. We would do well to approach any challenge in a way Veles wouldn’t.”
Ok … let’s see. He believes he Can do something Veles Can’t. He believes he can Succeed where Veles Failed. Let’s not discuss the fact that most likely Veles Knows the contents of the Egg and they don’t. And he still makes that comment.
Veles’ commentary about the eye at the heart … he didn’t really seem interested in it. His mannerisms didn’t change any when he talked about it. Leads me to believe that its not actually important to him, but its a good “litmus” test. Wouldn’t surprise me if the original Atlas went through a similar test some years back.
To be fair gods of pantheons generally aren’t omnipotent and do have things that they can’t succeed at and sometimes do send mortals in to do tasks they can’t for one reason or another do for themselves even if it’s just a ‘well that god and I have a deal where I can’t do that but it doesn’t say I can’t have someone else who is mortal do it for me’ situation. It’s just a bad assumption on Conjurer’s part (and why he rates the ‘arrogant fool’ label) that he thinks it so obvious that they’re being sent in specifically because Veles wants them to get something Veles is physically incapable of acquiring.
While I would say it’s not ridiculous that Veles has some sort of weakness or arbitrary constraint (a common feature in superhero comics and folktales alike) that might allow them to do something Veles can’t, I would agree that Conjurer’s proposal of succeeding where Veles failed has more hubris than sense to it. Alternatively, one of these “gates” could have an equally arbitrary constraint that effectively blocks Veles but would let through any of the people he selected.
And, as you point out, Veles doesn’t seem to be highly invested in the outcome, so as a reader I wouldn’t count on this being more than a test, a form of entertainment, or at most a “two birds with one stone” deal for Veles. I would expect “winning” to involve avoiding some “gotcha” at the end.
But if I were just imagining alternatives, I’d mention that even if we follow the “something Veles can’t do” logic, it could actually be something he *won’t* do: perhaps he’s promised someone that he himself wouldn’t enter and loot the egg, perhaps accessing one of the gates has a serious price and he’s unwilling to pay it, or perhaps this is an elaborate variation on herding the NPCs through the dungeon to set off the traps.
In fact, he might actually have come to New York just to trick or compel Atlas into traversing the egg (for whatever reason), and is now delighted to have a whole crowd of viable alternatives to accomplish the same thing.
“Most likely because he can’t, or he’s tried and he’s failed.”
Yeah … that’s one narrow interpretation of the reason.
It could be he doesn’t want the object, but sees it as a tool to be used. It might even be the item that ‘brands’ the new ‘champion of earth’ and nothing more. That way other ‘entities’ like himself ‘recognize’ the champion and understand that killing slash troubling them might get his attention, in a bad way.
Perhaps his presence in the world as he tried to retrieve it would cause other problematic issues he’d rather not deal with. However, if mortal hands were to retrieve the Eye, then the issues his presence would present are bypassed.
After all, as a bored god, you think he’d be willing to admit that there is something he couldn’t do?
I don’t know. If this pace really was built by Kosechi the Deathless, you’re looking at one of the original Liche stories. If he’s powerful enough he may have straight up warded it against Gods.
Conjuror and Neuronet appeared to be the leaders of their respective teams, so they likely have experience coordinating and such. Seems likely that they’d naturally attempt to take charge, but I can’t see Neuronet being so dense as to get into a petty squabble right off the bat… not if he’s managed to lead any kind of team for very long. If they’re heroes at all, they’ll get things sorted out for the good of the team. I anticipate, however, that they’re more like regular folks, but with powers. Julie’s probably the only one who’s been raised with an appreciation of her powers, even if she’s dismissed as just another FISS. This should be interesting.
“When did we start cheering against good guys, just because they have flaws?”
When they stopped being “good guys” and became instead a bunch of self-satisfied jerks with superpowers who have all but admitted they only show up because it’s expected of them and can’t wait to let “the grunts” handle cleanup so they can get back to their sponsored appearances and regularly scheduled adoring fans.
In short, they’re transitioning from “good guys” to “prima donnas” and if something doesn’t change the pattern, “petty tyrants” isn’t that far off.
Or a disaster like in Mystery Men, where to generate conflict to help with the public-adoration and corporate sponsorship they start helping criminals escape just so they can fight (in the Vanguard webcomic one corporate super-group has an explicit reveal that at least some of their battles are staged by hiring super-villains and if the super-villain violates the contract and doesn’t accept any financial penalties or makes trouble what gets done to him is enough to scare any other villains into acquiescence) and look good for the press.
We’re not rooting against these guys because they’re heroes with flaws. There’s also the fact that their hold on the title “hero” is a bit nebulous. They solve problems most folks can’t solve for one reason or another. So in the genre, people call them heroes.
They come across as petty little elitist jerks who are probably constantly busy maintaining their public image. Any kind of ‘work’ that could “ruin” their image will be quick shuffled off to the “lesser types” to handle. Of course they’ll never give any credit to the “lesser” types because they Don’t Matter.
Look at how they were bickering before they went into the Egg, they were more interested in “who’s going to beat him up!” I didn’t really see any major concern about the threat he posed, more a matter of ‘we beat him!’ sort of thing.
So … I’d say its more the fact that they’re jerks who just happen to do ‘good’ things than anything else. Of course, nobody likes jerks.
It’s nice to see 84 learning the power of snark thanks to Zodon, and once again the sole female adult displays more maturity and respect for her than the others (although at least the cocky fireguy shows concern with his response rather than the kind of arrogance and contempt the others have).
I do enjoy how things are shaping up, especially as we learn more about the personalities of the new characters and how they mesh (or don’t mesh as the case may be).
Yeah. *we* know 84 is way more mature than she seems and pretty competent for her age, but without having witnessed what she’s already accomplished, all he logically sees is a nine-year-old *kid*.
That said, it’s not exactly a productive response to Phlogiston’s question – whether or not this is a “safe place for kids”, 84’s here now and stuck with the rest of them, and Fishbowl Head Guy’s putdown was still petty and uncalled for — and in no way changes the fact that 84 has made more of a productive contribution to the discussion so far than he’s managed.
Out of all of them 84 is likey in the least danger, since she’s Flight, INVULNERABILITY, Strength, and Speed. It’s like asking if a paint ball game is any place for a main battle tank, or even an unarmored Humvee.
That’s the obvious point, then there are the more personal points of “it’s Julie”. But the rest of “Team Egg” hasn’t learned that fact yet.
Given it’s a magical place and 84 isn’t her invulnerability isn’t something to take as a given as being that useful against the threats inside the egg. But given everyone knows what powers she has simply because they know she’s a FISS they at least shouldn’t react to her as if she were a powerless human child but instead recognize she’s considerably more powerful than that and has a good chance of handling any of them in a one-on-one battle.
Conjurer doesn’t seem to be too much of a jerk. A bit arrogant, but he’s explaining what he thinks and why he thinks it, even if he’s not listening to other ideas. His biggest flaw is approaching a magic puzzle as if it’s straightforward, something he really should know better than to do.
I get the feeling this more of a test set up to take the best heros the world has(not the ultimate yet stupid like the moronic powers parents) and slam them into a trial by fire test to see if they can survive and really pull together as a true team. Also since 84 has both the innocence of a child and the pure creative mind of a child. I can easily see her showing up all the “pro adult heros” and teaching them what real team work means and showing how a little ‘childish thinking outside the box(or egg)’ can win the day. After all. It was julie ron and Tyler who beat Charlies the “greyhound” in a masterful tactic of distraction and flaked assault. I bet this so called “god wizard” who had the egg is just a proxy set up by someone else. Maybe headmaster or even Principle cranston!
Actually I’m more encouraged by bubble guy, he’s noticed that she’s smarter and maybe has more experience than he gave a child credit for. The other three are seeing her as a child first and not as a young superhero. The woman is kinder, but leaning to nanny. And the mage as an irritant, but none see her with any respect. I doubt her role in the public versions of PS238 heroics reached their attention, so thye see her only as a wannabe or child groupie.
I don’t think Veles said anything that hinted he could not get the prize at will. It’s more like he left his socks in the dryer. How well they get it is the test.
Why are people bashing on Rich Burlew rather than Randall Monroe? That guy’s even worse! Still, even the amazing detail in this comic isn’t quite as good as a theoretical comic in which randomly-chosen Ralph Goings paintings are juxtaposed next to each other in no particular order.
…
Seriously, as awesome as this is, comparing it to OOTS is doing both works a huge dis-service. They are BOTH good, even if some people want to claim otherwise.
This! Both series have created long detailed stories with good plots and subplots. They both have large casts with both heroes, villains, an some-we’re-we’re-never-quite-sure. Dissing in either direction is pointless and says more about you.
I can afford to read more than one artist’s stuff, can’t you?
People who bash Rich Burlew are simply ignorant. It takes a lot of skill to do as much as he does with such minimalist style. If you’ve ever seen the full-blown art he presents in other venues, you’d get a glimpse of how good he is. It’s really stunning.
Consider also Andrew Hussie of Homestuck. Regardless of what you think about the actual comic (if you can call it that :P), his other work shows that he can draw pretty well in several styles…the crappy “MS Paint” art is a stylistic choice (of course, one could spend several pages arguing about whether it is a good stylistic choice…).
I get the impression at least some simply aren’t using the ‘given’ names for the characters because they favor the less complimentary terms (like bucket head) based on how the characters have acted so far. Others meanwhile use the given name simply because etiquette is to do so if you know the name whether you respect the person or not.
I imagine that, at some point, one of the challenges will reveal each person’s greatest feats. Julie’s will probably beat out the others’ by a good margin.
Heh, just because advise is evil doesn’t make it bad advice, Miss 2^2(3(7)).
That would be 2 to the power of 42, yes? Not twice 42?
No, because exponents and roots are performed before multiplication and division.
I’m not so sure my early prognostication about who will be the last along with Julie. The conjurer seems to be heading for an epic smackdown, but that’s linear thought – and no story teller worth his salt thinks linearly.
Conjuror seems at least somewhat competent. He knows what’s going on, he’s aware of the obvious tropes, and he all but spelled out that this is a setting that rewards the clever over the powerful, which would make it rather silly if he arrogantly assumed his power would be enough in spite of that.
I would guess that his issue is that he’s thinking only of his own cleverness and his own power, not those of the other four heroes with him, and he might be unwilling to listen to someone with an idea that’s less clever than his but more effective.
Well, blue lady still seems to be racking up “not a complete douchebag” points.
That was fantastic. Jaded 84 is the best 84
Not necessarily. The designated red shirt can die predictably early on in the scenario without resorting to linear storytelling.
Now that you mention it, he does wear a red bathrobe…
Nice to see someone else getting irritated with Mr. Full-of-Himself. And Phlogiston seems to be increasingly a sympathetic character.
And that last panel was hilarious – 84 channeling Zodon, there’s a reason to shudder.
Well, conjurer is enough of an d*ck to make anyone want to channel Zodon.
Personally I’m waiting for the class’ teenage years when Zodon start to channel Zordon & recruit a team of teenagers with attitude, only to end up with a team with attitude problems.
Even though they do have ego issues, they’re starting to show some personality. Of course Conjurer is proving himself to be straight up Grade A Jerk. I foresee something mortifying happening, like his helmet being removed and showing he’s not so “awesome and all that”. That could be a turning point for him, or could make him more brash. Epic Smackdown? Nah. A lesson in humility, entirely possible.
The others seem to have started to think about Julie to a degree not as a “FISS”, but rather as a kid in a dangerous place. One they feel that she’s not prepared to handle, because she’s vulnerable and weak. The truth doesn’t matter, its the perception they have. She’s a kid. One who is in a rather dangerous place.
It’s the kind of mentality that you’d expect from adults in such a situation. Of course the second things start flying most of them I expect will fall back on the “you’re just a musclehead” and the like.
Phlogiston (so far) seems the one who is most willing to listen to reason. Bu then again, she hasn’t had a chance to really interact with the others. I have a feeling that most of them will probably at least pause and give thought to her comments. Especially after the first mangling(proverbial, not literal) happens.
Conjurer … I have a feeling he wouldn’t listen to Julie (or even give her any respect) even if you shoved a mystic artifact in his face and it told him to do so.
Nice to see them branching out. Still give points for the “Either he knows exactly what he is doing… or he has no idea meaning he will die first.”
So, I’m thinking that Conjurer is completely missing the obvious in that perhaps Veles uses the egg as a kind of vault/test. He could get the eye himself anytime he wants and likely keeps it where it is for times like this.
Also, liking Phlogiston more and Mr. Fishbowl less.
Yeah, pretty much this. He’s ignoring the obvious conclusion that Veles doesn’t need them to get the eye, he just WANTS them to, and is in full control of the egg’s interior.
I’m starting to think Fishbowl isn’t so bad, mostly because of Conjuror’s presence to provide a contrast.
And yeah, I wonder if Veles won’t put the egg right back where they found it. And hasn’t done so several times in the past.
Revenant: “Do you really have to pull the old egg trick out every few decades or so?”
Veles: “If I don’t do something with them, the inhabitants get annoyed and cranky and then they start entering your world. That would be dreadfully boring for me. I mean, they’ve entertained me oh so much over the centuries and capturing them again would be a chore.”
I like this theory. And the idea that Revenant could be fully aware of Veles’ activities. ^_^
While kicking back over a beer.
Veles keeps Atlas engaged, and in a fashion that is beneficial to society.
Conjurer has picked an interpretation of events and is now acting on the assumption that he’s correct, which makes him an arrogant fool, even if he’s correct.
One of the things I liked about Stargate SG-1 is that when something mysterious was going on, the characters went to the trouble of proposing as many explanations as they could think of, and then made plans based on “any of these might be true, or maybe it’s something else”, i.e. the kind of approach
that does’t guarantee death after a few iterations.
Intelligence does not always mean a person has Wisdom.
I personally know of someone in my family who is highly Intelligent, borderline genius even. However, he lacks the simple Wisdom to understand core facts of life.
It’s looking very much like Conjurer is adhering to the concept that all magicians use the same general Modus Operandi. It also makes me wonder just how much real experience he has in facing magical obstacles (ie Book Smart) or if he’s relied on the power of his magic as opposed to the skill and finesse that could really make it shine.
The fact he’s not stopping to go “what variables could their be?” shows that he lacks a certain degree of Wisdom. All he’s thinking about is “Defeat the next obstacle.”
Yes, one does have to wonder how someone like that has managed to get along in what one assumes is a risky and unforgiving profession. “Book smart” is normally more helpful in certain types of office and academic work than it is in the field, and relying on being the strongest magician present is pretty much bound to fail eventually. Perhaps he has assertive, snarky, practical counterparts in his regular team to offset his attitude?
Either that, or he’s never faced a particularly clever or creative opponent. It’s looking like both Veles and whoever created this egg (Koschei?) are likely to change this.
Uh it’s fairly basic and reasonable behavior for people to come to conclusions about something and act on what they believe is the correct response based on those conclusions. So that certainly doesn’t make Conjurer an arrogant fool, acting as if the only one who could possibly have valuable insight or useful ways of looking at the situation is himself that makes him an arrogant fool.
It’s basic and reasonable behavior in the face of familiar circumstances, or ordinary events in an otherwise safe environment. Operating with significantly more confidence than the situation warrants in a risky environment is pretty much a definition of “arrogant fool”.
One of the things I like about Williams’ writing is that when a character behaves this way it generally has the consequences one might expect.
Except to Conjurer it IS a fairly familiar environment and from a super-hero perspective it isn’t any more risky than any other general heroic venture so he’s not an arrogant fool for forming the conclusions he’s reached or for acting on them. We haven’t seen anything to think it isn’t operating within his expectations, indeed so far it is right down to the guide ‘at the door’ and the warning about ‘not cheating’. So what makes him an arrogant fool is treating everyone else as if they have nothing of value to contribute and appointing himself leader (although more acting as if everyone else is just baggage so that he’s less leader and more just ‘that guy on a quest with a gaggle of worthless hanger-ons to protect’).
“What makes him an arrogant fool is treating everyone else as if they have nothing of value to contribute” — That’s essentially my point.
Quoting Conjurer, “Why doesn’t he come in and get this eye himself? Most likely he can’t, or he tried and failed. We would do well to approach any challenge in a way Veles wouldn’t.”
There are more possibilities than that, especially if Veles is moderately creative and inclined toward deception. Knowing whatever rules govern a situation isn’t enough: if there are opponents involved, what they want and how they think is really what you need to know. Conjurer appears to be personally unfamiliar with both Veles and whoever established the egg, yet he’s acting as if he can confidently predict things about their motives and choices. He should be casting around for alternative possibilities, and keeping an eye out for the unexpected, which means listening to the people around him would be a very sensible idea at this point.
Whims, about your last bit …
“Why doesn’t he come in and get this eye himself? Most likely he can’t, or he tried and failed. We would do well to approach any challenge in a way Veles wouldn’t.”
Ok … let’s see. He believes he Can do something Veles Can’t. He believes he can Succeed where Veles Failed. Let’s not discuss the fact that most likely Veles Knows the contents of the Egg and they don’t. And he still makes that comment.
Veles’ commentary about the eye at the heart … he didn’t really seem interested in it. His mannerisms didn’t change any when he talked about it. Leads me to believe that its not actually important to him, but its a good “litmus” test. Wouldn’t surprise me if the original Atlas went through a similar test some years back.
To be fair gods of pantheons generally aren’t omnipotent and do have things that they can’t succeed at and sometimes do send mortals in to do tasks they can’t for one reason or another do for themselves even if it’s just a ‘well that god and I have a deal where I can’t do that but it doesn’t say I can’t have someone else who is mortal do it for me’ situation. It’s just a bad assumption on Conjurer’s part (and why he rates the ‘arrogant fool’ label) that he thinks it so obvious that they’re being sent in specifically because Veles wants them to get something Veles is physically incapable of acquiring.
While I would say it’s not ridiculous that Veles has some sort of weakness or arbitrary constraint (a common feature in superhero comics and folktales alike) that might allow them to do something Veles can’t, I would agree that Conjurer’s proposal of succeeding where Veles failed has more hubris than sense to it. Alternatively, one of these “gates” could have an equally arbitrary constraint that effectively blocks Veles but would let through any of the people he selected.
And, as you point out, Veles doesn’t seem to be highly invested in the outcome, so as a reader I wouldn’t count on this being more than a test, a form of entertainment, or at most a “two birds with one stone” deal for Veles. I would expect “winning” to involve avoiding some “gotcha” at the end.
But if I were just imagining alternatives, I’d mention that even if we follow the “something Veles can’t do” logic, it could actually be something he *won’t* do: perhaps he’s promised someone that he himself wouldn’t enter and loot the egg, perhaps accessing one of the gates has a serious price and he’s unwilling to pay it, or perhaps this is an elaborate variation on herding the NPCs through the dungeon to set off the traps.
In fact, he might actually have come to New York just to trick or compel Atlas into traversing the egg (for whatever reason), and is now delighted to have a whole crowd of viable alternatives to accomplish the same thing.
That final panel is as good as anything Rich Burlew has done.
Like most things Aaron Williams has done, it’s better.
Both are good.
Even in this, Zodon is making a contribution to saving the world. His very existence contributes to 84’s genre savviness!
“Most likely because he can’t, or he’s tried and he’s failed.”
Yeah … that’s one narrow interpretation of the reason.
It could be he doesn’t want the object, but sees it as a tool to be used. It might even be the item that ‘brands’ the new ‘champion of earth’ and nothing more. That way other ‘entities’ like himself ‘recognize’ the champion and understand that killing slash troubling them might get his attention, in a bad way.
Perhaps his presence in the world as he tried to retrieve it would cause other problematic issues he’d rather not deal with. However, if mortal hands were to retrieve the Eye, then the issues his presence would present are bypassed.
After all, as a bored god, you think he’d be willing to admit that there is something he couldn’t do?
I don’t know. If this pace really was built by Kosechi the Deathless, you’re looking at one of the original Liche stories. If he’s powerful enough he may have straight up warded it against Gods.
That would be a heart, though, not an eye, wouldn’t it? At the very least Veles seems to have co-opted this place.
according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koschei
He stuck his soul in a needle which was inside an egg, thus they are looking for the “eye of a needle”.
Conjuror and Neuronet appeared to be the leaders of their respective teams, so they likely have experience coordinating and such. Seems likely that they’d naturally attempt to take charge, but I can’t see Neuronet being so dense as to get into a petty squabble right off the bat… not if he’s managed to lead any kind of team for very long. If they’re heroes at all, they’ll get things sorted out for the good of the team. I anticipate, however, that they’re more like regular folks, but with powers. Julie’s probably the only one who’s been raised with an appreciation of her powers, even if she’s dismissed as just another FISS. This should be interesting.
When did we start cheering against good guys, just because they have flaws?
I’m not saying it isn’t a sign of progress; just want a date to note for future archeologists.
I think it’s more that most of us would rather have Veles as the good guy.
That and we’d like to see their egos deflated and some wisdom in its place so that they grow and become better heroes than they are now.
“When did we start cheering against good guys, just because they have flaws?”
When they stopped being “good guys” and became instead a bunch of self-satisfied jerks with superpowers who have all but admitted they only show up because it’s expected of them and can’t wait to let “the grunts” handle cleanup so they can get back to their sponsored appearances and regularly scheduled adoring fans.
In short, they’re transitioning from “good guys” to “prima donnas” and if something doesn’t change the pattern, “petty tyrants” isn’t that far off.
Or a disaster like in Mystery Men, where to generate conflict to help with the public-adoration and corporate sponsorship they start helping criminals escape just so they can fight (in the Vanguard webcomic one corporate super-group has an explicit reveal that at least some of their battles are staged by hiring super-villains and if the super-villain violates the contract and doesn’t accept any financial penalties or makes trouble what gets done to him is enough to scare any other villains into acquiescence) and look good for the press.
I also cheer for Zodon.
We’re not rooting against these guys because they’re heroes with flaws. There’s also the fact that their hold on the title “hero” is a bit nebulous. They solve problems most folks can’t solve for one reason or another. So in the genre, people call them heroes.
They come across as petty little elitist jerks who are probably constantly busy maintaining their public image. Any kind of ‘work’ that could “ruin” their image will be quick shuffled off to the “lesser types” to handle. Of course they’ll never give any credit to the “lesser” types because they Don’t Matter.
Look at how they were bickering before they went into the Egg, they were more interested in “who’s going to beat him up!” I didn’t really see any major concern about the threat he posed, more a matter of ‘we beat him!’ sort of thing.
So … I’d say its more the fact that they’re jerks who just happen to do ‘good’ things than anything else. Of course, nobody likes jerks.
It’s nice to see 84 learning the power of snark thanks to Zodon, and once again the sole female adult displays more maturity and respect for her than the others (although at least the cocky fireguy shows concern with his response rather than the kind of arrogance and contempt the others have).
I do enjoy how things are shaping up, especially as we learn more about the personalities of the new characters and how they mesh (or don’t mesh as the case may be).
Yeah. *we* know 84 is way more mature than she seems and pretty competent for her age, but without having witnessed what she’s already accomplished, all he logically sees is a nine-year-old *kid*.
That said, it’s not exactly a productive response to Phlogiston’s question – whether or not this is a “safe place for kids”, 84’s here now and stuck with the rest of them, and Fishbowl Head Guy’s putdown was still petty and uncalled for — and in no way changes the fact that 84 has made more of a productive contribution to the discussion so far than he’s managed.
Out of all of them 84 is likey in the least danger, since she’s Flight, INVULNERABILITY, Strength, and Speed. It’s like asking if a paint ball game is any place for a main battle tank, or even an unarmored Humvee.
That’s the obvious point, then there are the more personal points of “it’s Julie”. But the rest of “Team Egg” hasn’t learned that fact yet.
Given it’s a magical place and 84 isn’t her invulnerability isn’t something to take as a given as being that useful against the threats inside the egg. But given everyone knows what powers she has simply because they know she’s a FISS they at least shouldn’t react to her as if she were a powerless human child but instead recognize she’s considerably more powerful than that and has a good chance of handling any of them in a one-on-one battle.
Firedude isn’t a bad sort, really. I think that he’s still doing this gig for the heroing.
I thought it was less “Snark” and more “Willing to let a dude get eaten because he’s a big jerk” that she’s worried about.
Conjurer doesn’t seem to be too much of a jerk. A bit arrogant, but he’s explaining what he thinks and why he thinks it, even if he’s not listening to other ideas. His biggest flaw is approaching a magic puzzle as if it’s straightforward, something he really should know better than to do.
Conjurer is a typical wizard. Loads of knowledge, phenomenal cosmic power…zero people skills.
I get the feeling this more of a test set up to take the best heros the world has(not the ultimate yet stupid like the moronic powers parents) and slam them into a trial by fire test to see if they can survive and really pull together as a true team. Also since 84 has both the innocence of a child and the pure creative mind of a child. I can easily see her showing up all the “pro adult heros” and teaching them what real team work means and showing how a little ‘childish thinking outside the box(or egg)’ can win the day. After all. It was julie ron and Tyler who beat Charlies the “greyhound” in a masterful tactic of distraction and flaked assault. I bet this so called “god wizard” who had the egg is just a proxy set up by someone else. Maybe headmaster or even Principle cranston!
Actually I’m more encouraged by bubble guy, he’s noticed that she’s smarter and maybe has more experience than he gave a child credit for. The other three are seeing her as a child first and not as a young superhero. The woman is kinder, but leaning to nanny. And the mage as an irritant, but none see her with any respect. I doubt her role in the public versions of PS238 heroics reached their attention, so thye see her only as a wannabe or child groupie.
I don’t think Veles said anything that hinted he could not get the prize at will. It’s more like he left his socks in the dryer. How well they get it is the test.
Maybe the Eye will turn out to be in the dryer with Veles’ socks.
I think she probable learned about the stories in school ,a advantage non of the older heroes had.
It’s a safer place for polite, sensible kids than it is for arrogant arseholes.
Even if Bubblehead was being dickish, I’m reading dawning respect in the last panel at least.
I want to see the first contestant get eaten :P.
He’s failed to account for the possibility that this place is just where Veles keeps his stuff.
Or the answer could be… he doesn’t want to or he put it there in the first place?
Why are people bashing on Rich Burlew rather than Randall Monroe? That guy’s even worse! Still, even the amazing detail in this comic isn’t quite as good as a theoretical comic in which randomly-chosen Ralph Goings paintings are juxtaposed next to each other in no particular order.
…
Seriously, as awesome as this is, comparing it to OOTS is doing both works a huge dis-service. They are BOTH good, even if some people want to claim otherwise.
This! Both series have created long detailed stories with good plots and subplots. They both have large casts with both heroes, villains, an some-we’re-we’re-never-quite-sure. Dissing in either direction is pointless and says more about you.
I can afford to read more than one artist’s stuff, can’t you?
People who bash Rich Burlew are simply ignorant. It takes a lot of skill to do as much as he does with such minimalist style. If you’ve ever seen the full-blown art he presents in other venues, you’d get a glimpse of how good he is. It’s really stunning.
Consider also Andrew Hussie of Homestuck. Regardless of what you think about the actual comic (if you can call it that :P), his other work shows that he can draw pretty well in several styles…the crappy “MS Paint” art is a stylistic choice (of course, one could spend several pages arguing about whether it is a good stylistic choice…).
Noticed a mistake a few of us are making! Not nitpicking but the names were probably a bit easy to miss. I made the same mistakes as well …
Neuronet (bubblehead)
Phlogiston (lady in green)
Fire Guy (didn’t see a reference to his name)
Conjurer(bucket head!)
I’ve seen a few posts that sound like they were talking about Neuronet and wrote Phlogiston.
I get the impression at least some simply aren’t using the ‘given’ names for the characters because they favor the less complimentary terms (like bucket head) based on how the characters have acted so far. Others meanwhile use the given name simply because etiquette is to do so if you know the name whether you respect the person or not.
I imagine that, at some point, one of the challenges will reveal each person’s greatest feats. Julie’s will probably beat out the others’ by a good margin.